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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

Ron Obvious said:
It's certainly appears to be true to me that the Jacksonville shooting is getting more mentions around the net, including multiple mentions on this site.

Probably something to that whole 'narrative' thing.
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Yes, another good example to highlight here at the ol' skeptics forum.

A white man murders 3 black people and this thread really comes to life with several posts.

A black man murders four elderly white people, randomly, while walking around his neighborhood – one post on this board with zero mentions of the race of the shooter and the victims.

The shooting was last month and 3 LEO were shot and wounded while trying to arrest the shooter.

One post, zero mentions of race.
 
Bogative said:
Yes, another good example to highlight here at the ol' skeptics forum.

A white man murders 3 black people and this thread really comes to life with several posts.

A black man murders four elderly white people, randomly, while walking around his neighborhood – one post on this board with zero mentions of the race of the shooter and the victims.

The shooting was last month and 3 LEO were shot and wounded while trying to arrest the shooter.


One post, zero mentions of race.
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Do you have ANY evidence whatsoever that the killer of the white folks was motivated by deep seeded hatred of white persons? Did he leave a manifesto ranting against white people? Lots of social media posts angry about white people? No?

Then its very different. Even you can understand that.
 
Hercules56 said:
The current political mantra is that there is a mass shooting in the United States at least once a day, and that is why we must do something to stop it. But the only way to justify such a number is by going by the very general definition of one shooting event where more than three people are shot. And the vast majority of such shootings are not committed by white people, and this fact is highly problematic for certain agendas.
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is it though? The "mass shooting everyday" is generally a line for people advocating more stringent gun control, which would ideally apply to black and white would-be shooters alike. If you're looking at this strictly through the lens of "gun crime", then the motivations of individual shooters matters less. If anything, these people are not ignoring the shootings which aren't part of the narrow subset of disgruntled, often white, right wing terror shooters.

The conversations about general gun crime and the conversations about specifically spree killers and gun terror attacks are closely related but not the same. There's enough gun violence in the US for there to be nuance and distinctions.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
is it though? The "mass shooting everyday" is generally a line for people advocating more stringent gun control, which would ideally apply to black and white would-be shooters alike. If you're looking at this strictly through the lens of "gun crime", then the motivations of individual shooters matters less.

The conversations about general gun crime and the conversations about specifically spree killers and gun terror attacks are closely related but not the same. There's enough gun violence in the US for there to be nuance and distinctions.
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The "daily mass-shooting" mantra targets black people in urban areas, simply due to the numbers. That focuses the issue on a minority, impoverished community. Mostly using handguns, NOT assault weapons. This is a problem.
 
Hercules56 said:
The "daily mass-shooting" mantra targets black people in urban areas, simply due to the numbers. That focuses the issue on a minority, impoverished community. Not on white folks. This is a problem.
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Well yeah, inequality is tolerated because it only negatively impacts some people. Some people care about it, a lot don't.

I fail to see what solutions the "but Chicago" crowd are offering besides racist, tough on crime policing that we all know doesn't actually work to reduce crime. I doubt very many of them even believe in this, but rather see throwing up "black crime" as a deflection from the undeniable reality of the overwhelmingly right wing character of American domestic terror.
 
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TurkeysGhost said:
Well yeah, inequality is tolerated because it only negatively impacts some people. Some people care about it, a lot don't.
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My point is this: if we follow the daily mass-shooting logic, than for the most part our problem is with urban non-whites using handguns. That would logically be the focus and target of our measures to reduce mass-shootings.

We could basically ignore mass-shootings committed by racist or mentally ill white people with a social grudge in suburban areas using assault weapons, as they would be the extreme outlier.

You see the problem?
 
Parsman said:
The narrative is Americans of every colour, faith and ideology kill other Americans with guns at a rate that bewiders those of us who live elsewhere in the Western world. And sure, it seems a lot of it is crime and gang related but there is a significant proportion of mass killings that seem to be promoted by racism, often expressed through white supremacy. You can't ignore any of these motivations if you wabt to fix your problems, and at the moment white supremacy is especially worrying as it seems to have dug its claws deep into one of your major political parties.
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There have been 2 this year (that I recall, I'm sure my fellow members will be happy to correct me if I am wrong), 1 of those was committed by a brown "white supremacist."

2 of the 476 mass shootings.

You are willingly being misled.
 
Bogative said:
There have been 2 this year (that I recall, I'm sure my fellow members will be happy to correct me if I am wrong), 1 of those was committed by a brown "white supremacist."

2 of the 476 mass shootings.

You are willingly being misled.
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^^^^^^^^^^

This is the problem with the new current definition of "mass-shooting".

It logically moves the focus, and the target for legislation, to dealing with urban non-whites using handguns, in unplanned mostly crime-related shootings.

Racist or mentally ill whites in suburban areas using assault weapons? Only a very small minority of mass-shootings are of this type. IF we follow the new logic.

Houston, we have a problem.
 
Hercules56 said:
Do you have ANY evidence whatsoever that the killer of the white folks was motivated by deep seeded hatred of white persons? Did he leave a manifesto ranting against white people? Lots of social media posts angry about white people? No?

Then its very different. Even you can understand that.
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No evidence whatsoever other than the fact that the victims he chose were all white. If the races were reversed it would be assumed by most that it was racially motivated. No manifesto needed.
 
Bogative said:
No evidence whatsoever other than the fact that the victims he chose were all white. If the races were reversed it would be assumed by most that it was racially motivated. No manifesto needed.
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That is your assumption and speculation, however it is false.

There has never been a racist shooting against non-whites by a white person, where racist intent was not readily available.
 
Ron Obvious said:
It's certainly appears to be true to me that the Jacksonville shooting is getting more mentions around the net, including multiple mentions on this site.

Probably something to that whole 'narrative' thing.
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Another example. This mass shooting received 6 posts in this forum, 5 of which discussed whether or not it was a mass shooting.

July 14, Fargo, North Dakota 1 LEO killed, 2 LEO wounded, one bystander wounded.


  • 2 AR-15s
  • AK-47
  • 4 handguns
  • 50+ magazines
  • 1800 rounds of ammunition
  • 3 containers of gasoline
  • 2 propane bottles
  • 1 homemade grenade
  • Body armor and tactical gear


Mohammed Barakat, a Syrian refugee, was the shooter. One of his last internet searches was, "large crowd events in the region." There were 2 large public events occurring in Fargo the day of the shooting.

Police believe he was on his way to 1 of these 2 events when he happened upon a traffic accident that police were working. Barakat pulled his explosive-laden vehicle into a motel parking lot and observed the accident scene for several minutes before opening fire.

But, but, muh white supremacy narrative.
 
Hercules56 said:
That is your assumption and speculation, however it is false.

There has never been a racist shooting against non-whites by a white person, where racist intent was not readily available.
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Well, except every time a white police officer shoots an unarmed black man. Then it is racism, no evidence needed.
 
Bogative said:
Another example. This mass shooting received 6 posts in this forum, 5 of which discussed whether or not it was a mass shooting.

July 14, Fargo, North Dakota 1 LEO killed, 2 LEO wounded, one bystander wounded.


  • 2 AR-15s
  • AK-47
  • 4 handguns
  • 50+ magazines
  • 1800 rounds of ammunition
  • 3 containers of gasoline
  • 2 propane bottles
  • 1 homemade grenade
  • Body armor and tactical gear


Mohammed Barakat, a Syrian refugee, was the shooter. One of his last internet searches was, "large crowd events in the region." There were 2 large public events occurring in Fargo the day of the shooting.

Police believe he was on his way to 1 of these 2 events when he happened upon a traffic accident that police were working. Barakat pulled his explosive-laden vehicle into a motel parking lot and observed the accident scene for several minutes before opening fire.

But, but, muh white supremacy narrative.
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So you're saying a terrorist ISIS mass-shooting in the USA would not get major media attention?

LOL!!!

Wishful thinking.
 
There were 8 other mass shootings over the weekend.

5 killed

33 wounded

0 ***** given

We all know why.
 
Bogative said:
There were 8 other mass shootings over the weekend.

5 killed

33 wounded

0 ***** given

We all know why.
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If there is another mass-shooting every day, it becomes the norm and many folks will stop caring. Especially when they take place in isolated poor communities. The mass-shootings most people DO care about are the random ideological attacks, terrorist events, and racist crimes. Those are the interesting ones.
 
Hercules56 said:
So you're saying a terrorist ISIS mass-shooting in the USA would not get major media attention?

LOL!!!

Wishful thinking.
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Oh no, it received a significant amount of coverage. It's just that certain inconvenient facts are being largely ignored, relatively speaking.

Speaking of inconvenient facts that are being ignored, whatever happened to the manifesto written by the "trans" dude who walked into a Christian private school and murdered 6 people, including 3 children? That was 5 months ago and it still has not been released.

White supremacist manifesto released within 24 hours.

Tranny manifesto still not released after 5 months.

Nothing to see here.
 
Hercules56 said:
My point is this: if we follow the daily mass-shooting logic, than for the most part our problem is with urban non-whites using handguns. That would logically be the focus and target of our measures to reduce mass-shootings.

We could basically ignore mass-shootings committed by racist or mentally ill white people with a social grudge in suburban areas using assault weapons, as they would be the extreme outlier.

You see the problem?
Click to expand...

People can walk and chew gum at the same time. It's not a zero sum situation, you can care about trying to reduce easy access to pistols that are used for the vast majority of gun crime and also want to make it harder for would-be terror shooters to get their hands on rifles.

I don't see how the issues are in conflict, in fact they strike me as synergistic.
 
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Bogative said:
Oh no, it received a significant amount of coverage. It's just that certain inconvenient facts are being largely ignored, relatively speaking.

Speaking of inconvenient facts that are being ignored, whatever happened to the manifesto written by the "trans" dude who walked into a Christian private school and murdered 6 people, including 3 children? That was 5 months ago and it still has not been released.

White supremacist manifesto released within 24 hours.

Tranny manifesto still not released after 5 months.

Nothing to see here.
Click to expand...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...nclear-weeks-6-people-killed-christ-rcna79700

It’s been characterized as a manifesto. I think that’s a mischaracterization, personally,” Rausch said in another interview with Pray In Jesus Name News.

He said he viewed one document that was “specifically a plan,” while another contained “journal-type rantings.”

“Ideological expressions — none of that has surfaced in these writings,” Rausch said. “It’s really unfortunate mental health issues that you can see as you read through the journals.”

While “we’re starting to see a picture come together, I’ll tell you it’s not close to anything that people are subjugating out there and exposing their opinions on,” Rausch added. “Folks just need to be patient.”

Nashville police wouldn’t confirm the contents of the journal writings, and a department spokeswoman said they remain “under review and the motive is yet to be determined.”

 
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