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The DeSantis gambit

Yeah, and “people in Auschwitz lost excess weight” would also be true, but why even mention it?


Either you want honest history, or you don’t. But you need some explanation on how it is a slave could purchase his/her freedom. If you feel that this shouldn’t be taught, then your outrage over the Florida standards is just bogus.
 
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Great. History by your racist uncle”s Facebook memes.

I suppose Black Confederate soldiers are to be in the books soon.

I am gobmacked Peri does not know the difference between King James The First and King James The Second.

(yes, I know that the Jameses had different numbers in Scotland, but I think my point is clear).
 
Either you want honest history, or you don’t. But you need some explanation on how it is a slave could purchase his/her freedom. If you feel that this shouldn’t be taught, then your outrage over the Florida standards is just bogus.

Your atrempts to disguise where you are coming from are a miserable failure.
 
Your atrempts to disguise where you are coming from are a miserable failure.

What? Why do you want to lie to school children? Because historical fact doesn't align with your preferred narrative we need to bury it?
 
"we could spin this to black people look better" is a thought that literally no conservative has ever had ever
 
"we could spin this to black people look better" is a thought that literally no conservative has ever had ever

It's not about looking better or not better. It's just historial fact. Sheesh. Like that it was fascist Italy that ended slavery in Ethopia. Doesn't fit the narrative, but it's fact.
 
It's not about looking better or not better. It's just historial fact. Sheesh. Like that it was fascist Italy that ended slavery in Ethopia. Doesn't fit the narrative, but it's fact.

haha right, i bet you guys have plenty of other historical facts about black people you'd like taught
 
Either you want honest history, or you don’t.

Yes, we do which is why this lipsticked pig is getting so much push back from historians.

But you need some explanation on how it is a slave could purchase his/her freedom.

Already addressed.


If you feel that this shouldn’t be taught, then your outrage over the Florida standards is just bogus.

How many slaves purchased their freedom? And if they did, how many did so with the money they earned that their owners allowed them to keep from "skills" they learned as a result of slavery?
 
So, guess who Meatball Ron picked as one of the members of his Disney oversight board...

From: CBS News
An appointee by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis to an oversight board of Disney's special tax district taught a seminar in 2021 falsely claiming "Whites were also slaves in America," using discredited research to say there was an "Irish slave trade." The comments were made by Ron Peri...Peri, an Orlando-based pastor and CEO of a Christian ministry group called The Gathering, made the comments in an hourlong class for his group posted on YouTube about critical race theory called "Cunningly Devised Fables."...Historians have said that the research Peri cited is ahistorical and based on invented research: Whites were never considered slaves in America, legally or socially; 300,000 Irish were not sent as slaves to the Americas; English King James II - who Peri cited as issuing the proclamation in 1625 - was not born until 1633 and did not take the throne until 1685....The Irish did not "breed" with African slaves, as Peri claimed.

Ok, technically it wasn't Deathsantis making the comments, and Peri isn't involved in the Florida educational system. Still, if he's picking people like him for various government groups, they must have a similar mind-set.
 
Either you want honest history, or you don’t. But you need some explanation on how it is a slave could purchase his/her freedom. If you feel that this shouldn’t be taught, then your outrage over the Florida standards is just bogus.
https://www.ushistory.org/us/27d.asp#:~:text=Some slaves bought their own,a slave by a slaveowner.

So this was an uncommon practice becoming rarer as the 19th Century progressed. Is that how it would be taught in Florida or would it be your very simplistic "training program you could get out of" approach?
 
What? Why do you want to lie to school children? Because historical fact doesn't align with your preferred narrative we need to bury it?

It’s an attempt to sugar-coat history, concentrating on a tiny minority of slaves who were taught skills as opposed to the majority who were used as brute labor.

History is not about what you show but where your aim your spotlight. You are the one trying to lie by focusing on a tiny portion of slaves.
 
It’s an attempt to sugar-coat history, concentrating on a tiny minority of slaves who were taught skills as opposed to the majority who were used as brute labor.

History is not about what you show but where your aim your spotlight. You are the one trying to lie by focusing on a tiny portion of slaves.


So certain historical facts should be censored is we don’t like them?
 
So certain historical facts should be censored is we don’t like them?

Nobody is censoring anything. That’s purely your strawman and that you repeat it like a parrot means you have no real justification for this historical whitewashing.
 
So certain historical facts should be censored is we don’t like them?

kookbreaker said:
Nobody is censoring anything.
I'm sorry to say that kookbreaker is quite wrong about that.

Ron DeSantis has been censoring historical facts he doesn't like.

Jamelle Bouie, There Is a Reason Ron DeSantis Wants History Told a Certain Way:
Bouie said:
As you have probably seen by now, Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida has signed another bill that limits classroom instruction on racism and racial inequality. This one applies to colleges and universities, banning so-called divisive concepts from general education courses. I mentioned all this in my Friday column, tying it to the broader Republican effort to give public institutions the freedom to censor.


Rochelle Anne Davis and Eileen Kane, DeSantis’ ‘war on woke’ looks a lot like attempts by other countries to deny and rewrite history:
A Florida law that took effect on July 1, 2023, restricts how educators in the state’s public colleges and universities can teach about the racial oppression that African Americans have faced in the United States.

....The tactics that Gov. Ron DeSantis is using to censor the teaching of American history in Florida look a lot like those seen in the illiberal democracies of Israel, Turkey, Russia and Poland.

Here are four ways SB 266 relates to attempts used by modern governments to censor history.

1. Invent a threat....
2. Criminalize historical discussions....
3. Punish transgressors....
4. Write new history....


Like right-wing ideologues in other parts of the world, DeSantis claims to be defending U.S. history from falsehoods pushed by ideologues. In his attempts to rewrite history, calls for a reckoning with America’s history of anti-Blackness are ridiculed as indoctrination, and bigotry gets repackaged as patriotism.
 
You can argue all you want about what does or does not belong in a history curriculum, and how it should be presented. But one thing is true whatever your position on that, and that is that deciding what does or does not belong in a history curriculum is not the same as censorship of history. Deciding whether a thing should be stated, and how that statement may be spun or seen may be bad policy and bad history, but it is not the same thing as deciding that a thing may not be stated. The debate here is on whether De Santis and his cohorts are guilty of the former. As W.D. Clinger points out, there is no question that in other areas he is guilty of the latter.
 
So certain historical facts should be censored is we don’t like them?

No. But presenting certain historical 'facts' in a misleading way should not be included. It's like stating that "In some cases, Native American tribes voluntarily moved to reservations or Indian Territory," but not including the information they only did so 'voluntarily' because they knew they had no alternative.
 
Nobody is censoring anything. That’s purely your strawman and that you repeat it like a parrot means you have no real justification for this historical whitewashing.

Unfortunately you are wrong. The right wing, including multiple posters here, doesn't like many, if not most, historical* facts are making every effort to censor them.
You are not wrong about "whitewashing", of course.

*They don't much like scientific facts, either.
 
OK, I opened the document and read at least a part way through it. For those who do not want to, I should mention that it appears the first African American history section is only in the first 26 or so pages. There is a lot of context here, and it's clear that a large portion of the curriculum is fairly routine and attempts in some way to deal with reality, but there are certainly some issues here. The second African American History strand begins on page 124.

The section labeled SS 68 AA 2.3 is the one that's been cited over and over again, and which is most debatable. But a good portion of the rest has some issues that seem at least questionable, including explicit clarification of issues involving comparison of slave conditions in other countries, a pretty direct blaming of Africans and others for slavery itself, and a bit of what seems at least like equivocation regarding African-American artists and authors who, like Zora Neale Hurston, found it opportune, if not downright necessary, to leave Florida in order to lead lives unencumbered by its backward social structure and segregation, as well as what might be construed as a backhanded compliment to the Black towns in Florida which, while they existed only because of segregation and oppression, are now touted as contributors to the State's culture.

The second section largely mirrors the first, and once again seems to want to dilute the issue of slavery in the US by sending us all over the world where other slaves slaved for others, and blaming the Africans for selling them to us. And of course, though it's hard to pin down, the outline here indicates a dispassionate discussion of slavery, which while it might be factual as far as it goes, does not appear to say much about whether there is anything actually wrong with slavery.

I do, however, note that, if the curriculum is followed, SS.912.AA.4.6 and subsequent sections appear to take a pretty hard view at the contributions of not only organizations but the Florida government itself, for the prolongation of segregation.

So Ok, now I have read at least a good part of the curriculum, including, I think, most of what is pertinent here. In the context of the curriculum, it is clear that the whole thing is not a whitewash of slavery and segregation, which would after all be too over the top even for De Santis. But the fact remains that there are some sore points, and the pertinent one, which everyone keeps citing, stills stands out, and still appears to have no place in this curriculum except as an opening for the "up side" of slavery.

So while I will go so far as to say that the whole curriculum does not stink of fascist revisionism or the like, I see no reason to relent on the faults that I think are the direct result of an attempt to soften the condemnation of slavery, and no reason at all to consider that as anything but pernicious.

It's clearly a wedge to drive in a gap to allow stuff like "black people never had it so good as when they were slaves, they should be reenslaved" gain enough legitimacy to be put into the curriculum.
 

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