The DeSantis gambit

[Ziggurat]

With resilience, are you talking about how the skills were whipped into them?!

No.

Or is it about how some of them taught themselves to read in spite of being punished if they were discovered?

Yes. And that's admirable of them, is it not?

 

[Random]

To show the resilience and resourcefulness of slaves. I would have thought that's a good thing.

Ah. Slavery perseverance porn.

 

[quadraginta]

Douglas counts, but you want to disqualify him. That's the only basis on which to do so.

Douglass

 

[The Don]

This is how the crazy racist AP African American Studies framework put it. Where is the outrage?

[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2AVeI0XoAQ-dtd?format=jpg&name=small[/qimg]

https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/ap-african-american-studies-course-framework.pdf

Did the AP African American Studies course suggest that slavery was a good thing or seek to mitigate its effects?

If so, then there should have been outrage. If not, then there was no cause for outrage.

 

[Ziggurat]

Douglass

I suck at spelling, especially for words the autocorrect doesn't catch. This isn't news.

 

[Stacyhs]

Douglas counts, but you want to disqualify him. That's the only basis on which to do so.

So a slave who secretly taught himself to read despite it being illegal is evidence of how slaves benefited from skills they learned as slaves?

Oh, wow. This just keeps getting better and better!

 

[Stacyhs]

No.



Yes. And that's admirable of them, is it not?

 

[Ziggurat]

So a slave who secretly taught himself to read despite it being illegal is evidence of how slaves benefited from skills they learned as slaves?

He learned to read as a slave, did he not? Yes, he taught himself, but again, there's no limitation on HOW they learned. And reading benefitted him, did it not? Seriously, how does it not qualify? You aren't making any sense.

And it's an example of such a case. This was explicitly NOT described as the norm.

 

[lobosrul5]

He learned to read as a slave, did he not? Yes, he taught himself, but again, there's no limitation on HOW they learned. And reading benefitted him, did it not? Seriously, how does it not qualify? You aren't making any sense.

And it's an example of such a case. This was explicitly NOT described as the norm.

Its not an example of skills that a slave learned due to slavery. He learned it in spite of slavery. He didn't become a skilled blacksmith because his master taught him that and then magnanimously freed him when he realized this was a human being who he was enslaving.

This is also nothing new... jesus christ we learned about slaves who secretly taught themselves things back when I was in school, like 30 years ago.

ETA: WTF is the point of this "new" curriculum if thats all it really is?! Slaves who knew how to cut down trees could... wait for it... use that skill to find employment after slavery ended. WOW WHAT A PROFOUND ******* REVELATION! SOMEONE WRITE A DISSERTATION!

 

[dudalb]

Zig, maybe you should really rethink the way you blindly defend almost anything a Republican does.
That has led you to be a apologist for racism. You are going down the slippery slope fast.

 

[dudalb]

Its not an example of skills that a slave learned due to slavery. He learned it in spite of slavery. He didn't become a skilled blacksmith because his master taught him that and then magnanimously freed him when he realized this was a human being who he was enslaving.

This is also nothing new... jesus christ we learned about slaves who secretly taught themselves things back when I was in school, like 30 years ago.

Well , in Ancient Rome many slaves learned combat kills and had a career in entertainment. Often short, but a career...

"Are You Not Entertained?".

 

[lobosrul5]

Well , in Ancient Rome many slaves learned combat kills and had a career in entertainment. Often short, but a career...

"Are You Not Entertained?".

Many Christians learned how to feed lions. Why aren't we teaching how great those Roman Emperors were for teaching Christians important skills!? ******* wokism

 

[Ziggurat]

Its not an example of skills that a slave learned due to slavery.

Quite true.

But the standard said nothing about learning those skills due to slavery.

ETA: WTF is the point of this "new" curriculum if thats all it really is?! Slaves who knew how to cut down trees could... wait for it... use that skill to find employment after slavery ended. WOW WHAT A PROFOUND ******* REVELATION! SOMEONE WRITE A DISSERTATION!

Sure, it's not terribly profound, and what's more it's not even new or peculiar to Florida. As Trausti pointed out above, basically the same thing is included as part of the College Board's AP African American Studies. The only reason to think it's noteworthy at all is the desperate desire to portray DeSantis as a flaming racist, because for some reason just not agreeing on policy doesn't suffice.

 

[bruto]

He learned to read as a slave, did he not? Yes, he taught himself, but again, there's no limitation on HOW they learned. And reading benefitted him, did it not? Seriously, how does it not qualify? You aren't making any sense.

And it's an example of such a case. This was explicitly NOT described as the norm.

A case might be made (and might have at least been implied by Douglass himself in his writings - it's been a while since I read his autobiography) that though he did indeed learn to read while a slave, the process was slower, more laborious, and more dangerous than that same process would have been if he had been free. It's safe to say, I think, that he was a man of considerable intelligence and exceptional rhetorical skill, and literacy should not have been any kind of struggle for such a person.

Insofar as that is true, it is to his credit for sure, not at all to the credit of slavery (on that I presume we agree at least to a point), but I think there is an important difference between learning something simply in spite of slavery (as in, not promoted, provided or facilitated, even discouraged or made difficult, but not forbidden) and learning something actually forbidden and dangerous, which literacy was in many cases. I am not convinced that you are appreciating that difference, and not at all convinced that the promoters of the curriculum do. You have, after all, at least stated a "despite" that does not appear to be in the curriculum, and it certainly could have easily enough.

 

[quadraginta]

I suck at spelling, especially for words the autocorrect doesn't catch. This isn't news.

Still?


Seems like you might have learned this one by now, not least because it is the proper name of someone you profess to admire, or at least to see as an example to be followed.

 

[Venom]

I regard slaves learning new skills as a small footnote in the larger history lesson I don't want to quibble over.

The general attacks on black history and racial awareness from the rightwing is a real phenomenon though. It's difficult to see DeSantis acting without an agenda at this point. Everything can be potentially weaponized for him, and he goes to cartoonish lengths to make his point.

Rightwingers are in a moral panic about sexual abuse, sex trafficking real or imagined. Well American chattel slavery included one of the biggest sex trafficking networks in history! Is that what needs to be said for them to stop with the "you're not a slave anymore!" line?

 

[Stacyhs]

He learned to read as a slave, did he not? Yes, he taught himself, but again, there's no limitation on HOW they learned. And reading benefitted him, did it not? Seriously, how does it not qualify? You aren't making any sense.

And it's an example of such a case. This was explicitly NOT described as the norm.

I'll say this again, Zig: Put the shovel down. Your arguments are not valid or logical.

Its not an example of skills that a slave learned due to slavery. He learned it in spite of slavery. He didn't become a skilled blacksmith because his master taught him that and then magnanimously freed him when he realized this was a human being who he was enslaving.

This is also nothing new... jesus christ we learned about slaves who secretly taught themselves things back when I was in school, like 30 years ago.

ETA: WTF is the point of this "new" curriculum if thats all it really is?! Slaves who knew how to cut down trees could... wait for it... use that skill to find employment after slavery ended. WOW WHAT A PROFOUND ******* REVELATION! SOMEONE WRITE A DISSERTATION!

Your points, as obvious as they are...or should be...seem to be flying right over Zig's head.

 

[Ziggurat]

A case might be made (and might have at least been implied by Douglass himself in his writings - it's been a while since I read his autobiography) that though he did indeed learn to read while a slave, the process was slower, more laborious, and more dangerous than that same process would have been if he had been free. It's safe to say, I think, that he was a man of considerable intelligence and exceptional rhetorical skill, and literacy should not have been any kind of struggle for such a person.

Sure, I agree.

I also don't see how that conflicts with the standard.

Insofar as that is true, it is to his credit for sure, not at all to the credit of slavery (on that I presume we agree at least to a point), but I think there is an important difference between learning something simply in spite of slavery (as in, not promoted, provided or facilitated, even discouraged or made difficult, but not forbidden) and learning something actually forbidden and dangerous, which literacy was in many cases. I am not convinced that you are appreciating that difference, and not at all convinced that the promoters of the curriculum do. You have, after all, at least stated a "despite" that does not appear to be in the curriculum, and it certainly could have easily enough.

If you think the phrasing in the curriculum could be improved with such a change, I won't disagree. But we're back to an argument about assumed motives here, and I don't buy into such arguments.

 

[Ziggurat]

Still?

Yes, still, to my eternal shame. You should see me without any autocorrect. I keep trying to spell "curriculum" as "ciriculum".

 

[Ziggurat]

Zig, maybe you should really rethink the way you blindly defend almost anything a Republican does.
That has led you to be a apologist for racism. You are going down the slippery slope fast.

Maybe you should rethink the way you blindly attack almost anything a Republican does. That has led you to mistake disagreements for malice. You have already fallen off that cliff.