Afghanistan

[TurkeysGhost]

They wouldn't need to compel them. Expose their hypocrisy, and then get the UN to step in. America's reputation is salvaged, its allies are not angered, and Afghanistan has some kind of better future. Winner winner, chicken dinner.

I think you're really overestimating how willing other countries are to intentionally get involved in this horrible mess.

Nothing is stopping the UN or any of these other countries from getting involved now, or during the period where it became clear the US was leaving. The opportunity was there and nobody took it (besides the Taliban).

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I think you're really overestimating how willing other countries are to intentionally get involved in this horrible mess.

Nothing is stopping the UN or any of these other countries from getting involved now, or during the period where it became clear the US was leaving. The opportunity was there and nobody took it (besides the Taliban).

Was the UN ever asked to get involved?
Were the Muslim countries ever asked?
The period of time when the US was leaving was a few days, and its allies were not consulted or informed. This was a huge mistake by Biden.

ETA: And, as I said, if those countries refused to get involved, that would have left America with the moral high ground. Not much benefit for the Afghan people, but they would have been screwed anyway, and at least America could have salvaged something from this debacle.

 

[trustbutverify]

Amnesty International reports on the "new" Taliban's Islamic reformation in Afghanistan for 2022:

Restrictions on women’s rights, freedom of the media and freedom of expression increased exponentially. Institutions designed to support human rights were severely limited or shut down completely. Peaceful protesters faced arbitrary arrests, torture and enforced disappearance. The Taliban conducted extrajudicial executions, arbitrary arrests, torture and unlawful detention of perceived opponents with impunity, creating an atmosphere of fear. Extreme poverty increased, exacerbated by drought and other natural disasters. Public executions and floggings were used as punishment for crimes such as murder, theft, “illegitimate” relationships or violating social norms. Women’s rights continued to be attacked, and women’s participation in public life was severely limited. Afghanistan was the only country in the world where girls were banned from attending secondary school. Almost all institutions set up to address gender-based violence under the former government were shut down by the Taliban.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I don't see any solution.

 

[Planigale]

In what way were the premises for the invasion absurd? The US wanted Bin Laden, and the Taliban wouldn't give him up. What do you find absurd about that?
As for achieving nothing, I wouldn't be so sure, or so cynical.
For a start, girls have been in education for years. This is an achievement, and it's clear from the protests against the school closures that girls value their education, and won't just passively submit to Taliban oppression and denial of rights. Progress has been made in other areas too, such as female employment.
I think it might be more accurate to say that the Taliban are attempting to undo much of what has been achieved since the invasion. Moreover, it's not all the Taliban: there are reports of division among their ranks, particularly on the issue of female education.

From memory the US waited 2 weeks before invading. how long does it take to extradite a terror suspect from the US? What was the hurry?

 

[Planigale]

The Taliban have been very effective at halting the opium industry, far more than the US occupation regime was. This is contrary to much of the myth that the Taliban would make money from the trade. Since opium was a major cash earner in Afghanistan the Taliban have actually contributed to the financial crisis by stamping out opium trading.

 

[Lplus]

The Taliban have been very effective at halting the opium industry, far more than the US occupation regime was. This is contrary to much of the myth that the Taliban would make money from the trade. Since opium was a major cash earner in Afghanistan the Taliban have actually contributed to the financial crisis by stamping out opium trading.

The Economist this week reports on this very subject, including suggestions that the Taliban itself is still profiting in some way. The report also points out that synthetic opiods abound and the likes of China and India could no doubt provide the shortfall.

I wonder why the Taliban bothered, perhaps they view drugs in the same way they view alchohol.

Still, All good eh? More than makes up for the repression in every other avenue of life in Afghanistan...

 

[Ziggurat]

From memory the US waited 2 weeks before invading.

Your memory is wrong.

how long does it take to extradite a terror suspect from the US? What was the hurry?

You seem to think efforts to extradite bin Laden began after Sept. 11, 2001. They did not. They began years before, after the 1998 Nairobi embassy bombing. The Taliban didn't run out of time to hand him over. They were never going to.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Now the Taliban have banned beauty salons.

https://apnews.com/article/66c7151465679565d6332b61bf18a584

“This isn’t about getting your hair and nails done. This is about 60,000 women losing their jobs. This is about women losing one of the only places they could go for community and support after the Taliban systematically destroyed the whole system put in place to respond to domestic violence,” said Heather Barr, associate women’s rights director for the New York-based group Human Rights Watch.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Now the Taliban have banned beauty salons.

https://apnews.com/article/66c7151465679565d6332b61bf18a584

Very sad. A real betrayal for the women of Afghanistan who thought the promises of America were worth anything. Add it to the pile of local allies that got burned by the US after losing interest in military adventurism in their country.

The least we could do would be to ease the process for those trying to flee the country for a better life, but we all know the West has no intention to let more than a token amount of Afghan refugees into their countries.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Very sad. A real betrayal for the women of Afghanistan who thought the promises of America were worth anything. Add it to the pile of local allies that got burned by the US after losing interest in military adventurism in their country.

The least we could do would be to ease the process for those trying to flee the country for a better life, but we all know the West has no intention to let more than a token amount of Afghan refugees into their countries.

"The Australian Government has allocated 26,500 dedicated visa places for Afghans to migrate to Australia under the offshore Humanitarian Program through to 2026."

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-and-support/afghanistan-update

No way is that enough, unless other countries are taking in millions.

 

[Tristan Chi]

Now they are banning neckties.
What about the 'T' in Taliban?

 

[dudalb]

Amnesty International reports on the "new" Taliban's Islamic reformation in Afghanistan for 2022:

But it's akinder, gentler, Taliban.....

 

[dudalb]

Very sad. A real betrayal for the women of Afghanistan who thought the promises of America were worth anything. Add it to the pile of local allies that got burned by the US after losing interest in military adventurism in their country.

The least we could do would be to ease the process for those trying to flee the country for a better life, but we all know the West has no intention to let more than a token amount of Afghan refugees into their countries.

So now it goes from BLame America First to Blame the West first.
And it was the Left who pushed and pushed for a immediate pullout from Afghansitan and who pushed back in 2021 the "Taliban is different" storyline.
Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to call myself a 'Progressive".

 

[TurkeysGhost]

So now it goes from BLame America First to Blame the West first.
And it was the Left who pushed and pushed for a immediate pullout from Afghansitan and who pushed back in 2021 the "Taliban is different" storyline.

Nobody on "the left" had any illusions about the Taliban, they were just the only people with enough courage to speak the obvious, that the war was a lost cause and further continuance was pointless. Wish there was a single shred of consequences for the war-mongering ghouls that agitated for this open-ended, forever war that had no articulable goal or chance of success. Smoothing the path for refugees to get out of the mess we helped make is the least someone with a conscience could do, but that's asking too much I suppose. We're tired playing colonial master there and don't care what happens to the people now.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to call myself a 'Progressive".

The feeling is mutual pal

 

[Ziggurat]

Nobody on "the left" had any illusions about the Taliban

Oh yes they did. Not everyone on the left, definitely a minority, but far from no one. You can find plenty of examples of people on the left (such as Noam Chomsky) who opposed the initial invasion because they took the Taliban's offer to put bin Laden on trial as an actual serious offer.

 

[lobosrul5]

So now it goes from BLame America First to Blame the West first.
And it was the Left who pushed and pushed for a immediate pullout from Afghansitan and who pushed back in 2021 the "Taliban is different" storyline.
Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to call myself a 'Progressive".

It would, certainly be more fair to blame "the west" in general than the USA. What we're supposed to fund the costs of keeping the Taliban at bay in perpetuity in a country thats been given two decades of support and training but still cannot do it themselves? How about the UN take over?

I really am of two minds of the whole situation. I feel terrible for everyone caught up in it... but geez was the US military supposed to patrol there forever?

 

[theprestige]

It would be most fair to blame the Afghanis. They were offered a better deal against the Taliban, than Ukraine got against Moscow. Imagine how much better off Ukraine would be right now, if Literally NATO had spent the past twenty years not only training them, not only equipping them, but actually going toe to toe with Moscow-backed terrorists in the contested regions of the country. The Afghanis were freely given what Ukraine is begging for.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

It would be most fair to blame the Afghanis. They were offered a better deal against the Taliban, than Ukraine got against Moscow. Imagine how much better off Ukraine would be right now, if Literally NATO had spent the past twenty years not only training them, not only equipping them, but actually going toe to toe with Moscow-backed terrorists in the contested regions of the country. The Afghanis were freely given what Ukraine is begging for.

You are ignoring the fact that Ukraine is under assault by a foreign power seeking to take over their country and forcibly changing their culture into something pro-Russia, supported by a relatively small part of Ukrainians
Whereas in Afghanistan the west was the assaulting foreign power seeking to alter their culture supported by a small group of Afghani.

Had we actually wanted to eliminate the support for the Taliban, we should have disarmed the entire population, put western soldiers, police officers and teachers in every single village, re-educated the population and only given back political control to those not mind-washed by Taliban 'clerics', over a period of 50 years or so.

In other words, a full on colonization, but the will to do that was never there, on no part of the political spectrum.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It would be most fair to blame the Afghanis. They were offered a better deal against the Taliban, than Ukraine got against Moscow. Imagine how much better off Ukraine would be right now, if Literally NATO had spent the past twenty years not only training them, not only equipping them, but actually going toe to toe with Moscow-backed terrorists in the contested regions of the country. The Afghanis were freely given what Ukraine is begging for.

Afghani is a currency. People from Afghanistan are Afghans.