How does skepticism inform our approach to personal relationships?

nosho

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nosho
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Or does it? Or should it?

I'm thinking of something like a husband-wife relationship, or parent-child. A close relationship. Sometimes someone will say, "I love you." Then I suppose we might be tempted to think to ourselves, "Prove what you claim."

But we also might be tempted to abandon skepticism, throw caution to the wind and trust what the person says. We might want to do this even in the face of inconclusive evidence. Maybe the person has not always treated us in a loving manner.

In those real-world relationships, how does skepticism inform what we do? Do we hold a little bit of ourselves back, accepting the person's statement of love as a working theory that fits with the preponderance of current evidence, but acknowledging that the theory is subject to change in the face of new evidence?

If we accept love in this way, with skepticism, do we run the risk of missing the full potential of this relationship? Or are we just being realistic and intelligent, acknowledging that we can never really put full faith in the proposition of love? Or maybe protecting ourselves from the possible hurt of a big let-down.

Or do we trust? And if we trust, does that require setting aside skepticism? And if we don't set aside skepticism, then is it really trust?
 
I once ended a very nice relationship when I inadvertently blurted out a "sceptical answer", I was asked "Do you think we'll be together in 10 years time?" and I responded with "It's not very likely".

Whoops!
 
Friend, if you have to think this much about whether or not you're in love, or whether or not someone is in love with you, I daresay you've never experienced true, unconditional love.

It's been my experience that while relationships do require work and maintenence, if there is a true underlying love there, it will never, ever be in question.

You shouldn't have to ask for proof when someone says to you "I love you." If it's true, you'll know, and if it's not, you'll know that too.
 
Darat said:
I once ended a very nice relationship when I inadvertently blurted out a "sceptical answer", I was asked "Do you think we'll be together in 10 years time?" and I responded with "It's not very likely".

Whoops!
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But atleast your prediction was accurate :)
 
nosho said:
Or does it? Or should it?

I'm thinking of something like a husband-wife relationship, or parent-child. A close relationship. Sometimes someone will say, "I love you." Then I suppose we might be tempted to think to ourselves, "Prove what you claim."

But we also might be tempted to abandon skepticism, throw caution to the wind and trust what the person says. We might want to do this even in the face of inconclusive evidence. Maybe the person has not always treated us in a loving manner.

In those real-world relationships, how does skepticism inform what we do? Do we hold a little bit of ourselves back, accepting the person's statement of love as a working theory that fits with the preponderance of current evidence, but acknowledging that the theory is subject to change in the face of new evidence?

If we accept love in this way, with skepticism, do we run the risk of missing the full potential of this relationship? Or are we just being realistic and intelligent, acknowledging that we can never really put full faith in the proposition of love? Or maybe protecting ourselves from the possible hurt of a big let-down.

Or do we trust? And if we trust, does that require setting aside skepticism? And if we don't set aside skepticism, then is it really trust?
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"Now whether it be bestial oblivion or some craven scruple of thinking too precisely on the event; a thought, which quartered, hath but one part wisdom and ever three parts coward..."

Hamlet, IV,4,39 :teacher:

Yeah, that's right. I just went Renaissance on his *ss
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I think I'm less likely, as a skeptic, to use wishful thinking and think I've found True Love brand love as nonskeptics are. I know people who find their True Love Destiny Soulmate about three times a year. That seems unlikely to my cold skeptical mind.

On the plus side, by correctly figuring out what kind of relationship it really is, I can relax and have fun instead of worrying Is This Leading Somewhere?
 
If you are husband and wife and you have to say prove that you love me then your relationship is in deep trouble. Trust is necessary for life. How does one prove that they love you? Do a scientific study? Have them climb the highest mountain to show their love for you? The level of proof will be much different than that of scientific matters. If you find them acting questionably then you can ask them for an explanation and if insufficient reason is given it may be reason to find another relationship or seek help.
You don't need to abandon skepticism in order to accept the level of proof as the best you can get. You can apply skepticism to any problems in life, however the levels of proof will be much less reliable in your relationships with others. If you demand scientific proof of your spouses love then they would have to publish a paper in a peer reviewed journal so accepting whatever evidence you do have is how a romantic relationship starts anyway.
I think everyone approaches relationships a little different. I have always acknowledged that any particular relationship might fail and am not protected from being hurt by it. I have personal knowledge and experience that I can deal with the hurt. I think you have a mistaken idea about skepticism since it is really just a way to deal with information and in a relationship the information will be poor from a scientific point of view. So you have to set parameters that are acceptable for the information you can gather about your relationship. While you're gathering data about your significant other (also known as dating) also gather data about yourself to be sure you love them since you may have a biased opinion of yourself (introspection). Truth is that people change and you may have to decide that you no longer love them or that they no longer love you. So you need to continue to pay attention to your significant other and yourself and adjust your relationship to fit with the data available.
 
Let's put it this way:

Your husband tells you that he loves you. He also cheats on you regularly, has emptied your mutual bank account, was fired from his job and isn't seeking another one, hocks your stuff at a nearby pawnbroker, and gave you a sexually transmitted disease.

Do you believe what you desparately want to believe, or do you follow the accumulation of the evidence?
 
Saying "I love you" is usually just reaffirming previous actions that can be used as evidence of love. In a close relationship these words come after the apparent fact. That is why when these words are blurted out to early in a relationship they are met with skepticism as the proof is just not there.

Although in a parent-child relationship the love that is felt for a child is evident even before birth. Although a child can not verbally relay the feeling for some time it becomes quite obvious that they do in fact love their parents.

Of course when you first hear the words “I love you” from a child it just may make you cry even if you had all ready accepted it as fact.

This is all based on personal observation of my relationships.
 
That is my feeling on love now. There is no removing of beauty to say love does in fact require proof since from what I've seen the proof doesn't need to be "presented" after someone makes the claim. As "huh?" says, it presents itself before during and after the claim is made. It is far more likely that a person who asks about your thoughts and feelings, attempts to curry favor with gifts, tries to take care of you, and is willing to work with you on issues as opposed to holding the relationship hostage until certain demands are met does in fact love you. Sure there is the chance it is all a clever ruise, but that can be said about any claim. It isn't blind faith at this point, it is a well informed trust gained by a lot of evidence, and I'd say it is still a very wonderous thing, perhaps more so in it's way.

And as others have mentioned, in situations where there isn't reason to believe someone loves you, it is the better response to either end the relationship or ask for evidence rather than take it on faith. When a relationship starts out, the "I love yous" are to be taken with a grain of salt at first. Wait a while, give it a few weeks. Then you can actually decide. This is a process a lot of people go through anyway, they just don't seem to realize they are being rational minded about it. With that realization, ending an abusive relationship becomes easier. If you logically went into it knowing the signs of love, then you can recognize it if that evidence should ever vanish, or evidence of abuse appears. It won't make it easier, but at least it helps to prevent abusive relationships.

I will say this. If asked "will we still be together in 10 years?", I would not respond "not very likely". It would be better to say "the only way to find out is to wait 10 years and see".
 
nosho said:
I'm thinking of something like a husband-wife relationship, or parent-child. A close relationship. Sometimes someone will say, "I love you." Then I suppose we might be tempted to think to ourselves, "Prove what you claim."
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Believing that someone loves you without any evidence is a recognised psychiatric illness.

If someone says "I love you", however, they have usually presented you with considerable evidence that they do, which includes making the statement itself, which (in the context of an existing relationship) is not intended to convey information, but rather is a performative sentence.
 
Gee, I thought this would more be about how being sceptical affects how you relate to your near and dear. I am just now beginning to indicate my doubts when certain friends provide me with the latest dose of the unproven and/or silly. I know that I am much more gentle in my approach to those close to me, pointing them in the direction of websites or asking how they think something might work and trying to keep my tone level. Other folks are more likely to get a harsher response.

Edited to remove a redundancy, which has been removed.
 
Melendwyr said:
Let's put it this way:

Your husband tells you that he loves you. He also cheats on you regularly, has emptied your mutual bank account, was fired from his job and isn't seeking another one, hocks your stuff at a nearby pawnbroker, and gave you a sexually transmitted disease.

Do you believe what you desparately want to believe, or do you follow the accumulation of the evidence?
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If you follow the logic of most theists and their belief in a god who treats them in a similar manner, you believe!
 
I don't know if you'd count friendship a relationship but....

anyway, not so long ago I was telling a friend about my atheism and he replied I would go to hell for not believing in God.

problem was, he was drinking some vodka/red bull at the time!
 
JLam said:
It's been my experience that while relationships do require work and maintenence, if there is a true underlying love there, it will never, ever be in question.

You shouldn't have to ask for proof when someone says to you "I love you." If it's true, you'll know, and if it's not, you'll know that too.
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Dogdoctor said:
You don't need to abandon skepticism in order to accept the level of proof as the best you can get. You can apply skepticism to any problems in life, however the levels of proof will be much less reliable in your relationships with others.
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My own experience suggests to me these statements are true. I'm thinking of the kinds of close relationships that most of us would consider to be healthy. Not abusive. Not broken. In those relationships, there comes a point, in my experience, when rigorous skepticism no longer has a healthy place, because skepticism means not participating fully in those relationships. At least that's my impresson.

Which leads, then, to the notion that there are areas in our lives where maybe it's best not to apply rigorous skepticism.

Does that sound right? There are times when it's best not to apply rigorous skepticism.

Does that necessarily entail a state of vulnerability? I think it does. Because of course people change. But we still have to trust.

And for me, it also raises the question of where one draws the line. When is it a good idea to apply rigorous skepticism, and when is it not a good idea? Or is that completely up to each individual?

Dogdoctor said:
I think you have a mistaken idea about skepticism since it is really just a way to deal with information and in a relationship the information will be poor from a scientific point of view.
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I wonder if there are other areas besides personal relationships where this is true.
 
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