Cont: The Biden Presidency (3)

[acbytesla]

Unless Biden starts to suffer some serious health issue in the next year he will be the Democratic nominee. Incumbency is a major advantage.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Unless Biden starts to suffer some serious health issue in the next year he will be the Democratic nominee. Incumbency is a major advantage.

And in this case it adds additional experience to the candidates extensive CV.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Unless Biden starts to suffer some serious health issue in the next year he will be the Democratic nominee. Incumbency is a major advantage.

The Reagan 2nd term shows that a lot of serious, even debilitating geriatric illnesses can be carefully hidden from the public. Then we have Diane "Weekend at Bernies" Feinstein, a half-dead corpse being wheeled around by her staffers. So long as there's a pulse the Biden admin can keep lumbering on.

 

[Suddenly]

The idea that putting the country first is somehow not supportive of labor or liberal enough is a joke.

Jesus, this was a scene right out of American President by Aaron Sorkin.

Shepherd: I studied under a Nobel-prize winning economist. You know what he taught me?
McInerney: Never have an airline strike at Christmas?
Shepherd: I'm going to St Louis

But Aaron Sorkin's not Democrat enough?

He's plenty Democrat I guess. So is Joe Biden. That's sort of the problem. That not fully supporting labor rights is good politics is a different issue. There are a lot of ways for the administration to step in and prevent that strike that don't involve issuing a statement adopting a bunch of anti-union themes being pushed.

There is an argument that Sorkin's shows have done about as much damage to our body politic as Fox News. Fox did this maliciously with propaganda techniques that radicalized it's viewers. Shows like the West Wing did it more by accident by presenting a sort of wonkish liberal fantasyland conception of politics that way too many liberals mistook for reality. This didn't radicalize them as much as leave them unable to see the modern conservative/fascist movement for what it is and thus extremely vulnerable to a ruthless conservative political movement.

 

[acbytesla]

The Reagan 2nd term shows that a lot of serious, even debilitating geriatric illnesses can be carefully hidden from the public. Then we have Diane "Weekend at Bernies" Feinstein, a half-dead corpse being wheeled around by her staffers. So long as there's a pulse the Biden admin can keep lumbering on.

Woodrow Wilson is probably the best example. He had a stroke in his second presidency and the first lady Edith Galt pretty much ran the administration for 17 months.

 

[Suddenly]

I don't even remember, what's the normal policy for primary challengers to an incumbent? Do they even normally do televised debates? Any recentish historical examples?

I think if there would be a plausible challenge it would get pub.

Nothing really recentish on that ground.

Ted Kennedy challenging Carter in 1980 is the most recent example, but that might as well have been in 1880 given the shifts in media practices. He's the last person to lead in the polls at some point and also win states.

 

[Delvo]

The Reagan 2nd term shows that a lot of serious, even debilitating geriatric illnesses can be carefully hidden from the public. Then we have Diane "Weekend at Bernie's" Feinstein, a half-dead corpse being wheeled around by her staffers.

I don't really remember how Reagan seemed at public appearances toward the end, but Feinstein seems to have been just avoiding making any. Biden's problem is twofold: when he makes public appearances he gives people the impression of an old codger drifting away, but not making public appearances also creates an impression of its own.

There is an argument that Sorkin's shows have done about as much damage to our body politic as Fox News... by presenting a sort of wonkish liberal fantasyland conception of politics that way too many liberals mistook for reality. This didn't radicalize them as much as leave them unable to see the modern conservative/fascist movement for what it is and thus extremely vulnerable to a ruthless conservative political movement.

I guess this must refer to the politicians, not the populace/voters/base. When I've talked to ordinary people over the last few decades, they've called the other party fascist all along. Crying wolf too much about that became a significant part of the problem.

And that theory would only explain their idea of tactics anyway, not the rightward drift of the motivations of the politicians within their own party. For that, I don't know where to look other than a couple of Supreme Court decisions legalizing bribery and the Clinton-Obama con of campaigning as lefties but not governing that way, followed by a nation of conned lefties desperately striving to stay in the con by coming up with ways to defend their icons' non-leftiness. My pick for one lefty or Democrat to say did the most harm to his/her own side from outside the government, in entertainment media instead, would be Jon Stewart. For years, it was impossible to find anybody laying out the left's case rationally because everybody was so obsessed with turning every political conversation into another platform for their constant Jon Stewart impersonations. Any idea or group of ideas or "movement" is bound to suffer from years of all of its own proponents not only failing to make a real case for it but even actively pushing people away from it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The Reagan 2nd term shows that a lot of serious, even debilitating geriatric illnesses can be carefully hidden from the public. Then we have Diane "Weekend at Bernies" Feinstein, a half-dead corpse being wheeled around by her staffers. So long as there's a pulse the Biden admin can keep lumbering on.

So you trust your imagination over what is observable?

I take it you are going with, never listened to him speak, never noticed the success of his policies. never noticed the bipartisan successes?



BTW, not only is Biden absolutely nothing like Feinstein, her dementia isn't exactly hidden now is it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Woodrow Wilson is probably the best example. He had a stroke in his second presidency and the first lady Edith Galt pretty much ran the administration for 17 months.

Apples and oranges given the difference social media adds to transparency.

 

[lobosrul5]

When you say "any likely candidate" I don't see anyone moving up in the ranks. Were Nancy Pelosi considering running I might weigh her viability. But she seems determined to retire.

It's important the candidate does not pose a risk of losing to Trump because they don't appeal to a full range of voters from the middle to the left. IOW Sanders is not a good candidate. There are others like IOC who I think will make a very good candidate in a decade or so.

This business of Biden's too old is BS. Lots of people maintain fully functioning brains well into their 90s. I see no indication that isn't the case with Biden. A brief lapse in short term memory truly is not an indication of impending dementia. To counter any of his short term memory lapses all the Democrats need to do is to play this video ad nauseum:

They could do a montage of that plus Trump carefully walking down the ramp after his West Point speech, Trump with TP hanging off his shoe going up the airplane stairs and his inability to close an umbrella at the top of the stairs.

To counter that backfiring they could show Joe tripping 3 times on the plane stairs with a comment "No this doesn't make a candidate incompetent, you look at their record in office for that." Maybe scroll a long list of Biden's accomplishments until the ad fades out.

Wouldn't that make a great ad?

But I digress. Yes, I think Biden is like the race between the tortoise and the hare. You know the outcome of that symbolic fictional race.

I don't think he's too old and I think people saying so are knee-jerking their assessment.

Now that was a heck of a reply. My summation is: I used to really want someone else, but Biden was OK. But theres no one else out there from any party, or any independent, who has announced a run that I'd choose over Biden. But, that there just "HAS to be someone I'd prefer" out there... maybe Pete Buttigieg, maybe Gretchen Witmer... I dunno.

Now, well he's done such a good job with the Ukrainian war effort in the past few months that I'd be afraid that whoever replaces him will be worse. So, 4 more years of Biden is my #1 pick. Biden now seems to have a good working relationship with Zelensky, that will obviously be gone with a new POTUS.

I have my disagreements with Biden on certain issues but that will be true of absolutely anyone who becomes POTUS.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

BTW, not only is Biden absolutely nothing like Feinstein, her dementia isn't exactly hidden now is it.

She's one foot into the grave now, but the party has been downplaying her health concerns and specifically her slipping mental acuity for years. It was hidden until her problems were so severe that it was impossible to continue doing so.

 

[Suddenly]

I guess this must refer to the politicians, not the populace/voters/base. When I've talked to ordinary people over the last few decades, they've called the other party fascist all along. Crying wolf too much about that became a significant part of the problem.

Politicians, media pundits, and the more affluent liberal demographic seem to be where this had the greatest effect.

And that theory would only explain their idea of tactics anyway, not the rightward drift of the motivations of the politicians within their own party. For that, I don't know where to look other than a couple of Supreme Court decisions legalizing bribery and the Clinton-Obama con of campaigning as lefties but not governing that way, followed by a nation of conned lefties desperately striving to stay in the con by coming up with ways to defend their icons' non-leftiness. My pick for one lefty or Democrat to say did the most harm to his/her own side from outside the government, in entertainment media instead, would be Jon Stewart. For years, it was impossible to find anybody laying out the left's case rationally because everybody was so obsessed with turning every political conversation into another platform for their constant Jon Stewart impersonations. Any idea or group of ideas or "movement" is bound to suffer from years of all of its own proponents not only failing to make a real case for it but even actively pushing people away from it.

All of this works together, really. I agree about Jon Stewart. He provided the illusion of an obvious centrist consensus (Rally to Restore Sanity, etc.) in a way that caused people to mistake mockery of the absurd for argument in favor of a better alternative. The implication that these people out there supporting the tea party stuff are simply just stupid and can be combated with snark.

His main valid point was that most political media had become disconnected from reality and existed mostly to argue with itself. As far as moral blame goes it's more on the media than Stewart specifically. Stewart was a mediocre comic and talk show host who got thrust into a vacuum because nobody else in media was at all covering politics as a thing that mattered to real people in the real world. That Jon Stewart became a political icon is in context roughly as weird as Trump managing to become president.

I mean, when "What if Craig Kilbourne didn't get his own talk show and stayed the host of the Daily show" is a compelling counterfactual premise then we know we've gone sideways.

 

[Stacyhs]

So you trust your imagination over what is observable?

I take it you are going with, never listened to him speak, never noticed the success of his policies. never noticed the bipartisan successes?



BTW, not only is Biden absolutely nothing like Feinstein, her dementia isn't exactly hidden now is it.

There are members who constantly moan and groan about the 'horrible' Dem centrists and Biden in particular because they aren't as far to the left as these members want. They have the audacity to get things done by not taking the attitude of "It's 100% my way or the highway" which gets no one anywhere. It's criticize, criticize, criticize and paint the bleakest picture possible. Ignore what Biden and the Dems have accomplished and, rarely, when it is acknowledged, it's still somehow not quite good enough.

 

[Stacyhs]

Biden is still working to bring student loan relief despite his previous plan being stopped by the SC:

Biden administration forgives $39 billion in student debt for more than 800,000 borrowers

The Biden administration announced it would automatically cancel education debt for 804,000 borrowers, for a total of $39 billion in relief.

The debt cancellation is a result of the administration’s fixes to repayment plans, which included updated counts of borrowers’ payments.

The relief is a result of fixes to the student loan system’s income-driven repayment plans. Under those repayment plans, borrowers get any remaining debt canceled by the government after they have made payments for 20 years or 25 years, depending on when they borrowed, and their loan and plan type.

In the past, payments that should have moved a borrower closer to being debt-free were not accounted for, according to the Biden administration.

“For far too long, borrowers fell through the cracks of a broken system that failed to keep accurate track of their progress towards forgiveness,” U.S. Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona said in a statement.

To bring people over the line for forgiveness, the Biden administration counted payments for borrowers who’d paused their payments in certain deferments and forbearances and those who’d made partial or late payments.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Biden is still working to bring student loan relief despite his previous plan being stopped by the SC:

This is a great move and proof that the people who tend to claim that "nothing can be done" are frequently wrong. Hopefully this is the first of more debt relief to come, SCOTUS be damned. It's very good for Biden to be seen going to bat for student loan borrowers.

 

[Stacyhs]

This is a great move and proof that the people who tend to claim that "nothing can be done" are frequently wrong. Hopefully this is the first of more debt relief to come, SCOTUS be damned. It's very good for Biden to be seen going to bat for student loan borrowers.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

I've got it figured out! The cocaine was left in the White House by Bigfoot! He's well known for his invisibility, especially to cameras!

I've noticed the reason some tend to slip into logical fallacy is simply because they have no fact based response.

Evidence of Bigfoot is up for debate of course, (and there are threads for that) but there can be no debate that evidence of Cocaine use in the Biden White House has been verified.

 

[gnome]

I've noticed the reason some tend to slip into logical fallacy is simply because they have no fact based response.

Evidence of Bigfoot is up for debate of course, (and there are threads for that) but there can be no debate that evidence of Cocaine use in the Biden White House has been verified.

You don't have that established. What you have is that one of the many people coming and going had some in their possession and ditched it. I'm not sure what larger conclusion can be drawn from that.

 

[Stacyhs]

I've noticed the reason some tend to slip into logical fallacy is simply because they have no fact based response.

You're confusing mockery with logical fallacy.

Evidence of Bigfoot is up for debate of course, (and there are threads for that)

Evidence of King Kong attacking airplanes from atop the Empire State Building is up for debate, too.

but there can be no debate that evidence of Cocaine use in the Biden White House has been verified.

No, a baggie of cocaine being found in the White House has been verified. "Use" has not been verified. But nice try.

 

[acbytesla]

I've noticed the reason some tend to slip into logical fallacy is simply because they have no fact based response.

Evidence of Bigfoot is up for debate of course, (and there are threads for that) but there can be no debate that evidence of Cocaine use in the Biden White House has been verified.

You're the one committing a logical fallacy. Cocaine was found in the West Wing. As Stacyhs said, use has not been verified.

We have no idea who it belonged to. It could have belonged to a member of the military, or a Secret Service employee, a janitor. a visitor on a tour, or as you mentioned a construction worker.

.