Drag Shows!!

[catsmate]

Monty Python were dragsters all the time, but the content would never get aired now.

Except on Google Play, iTunes, Netflix and Amazon. Plus free-to-air TV.
Stop lying.

 

[catsmate]

On BBC?

iPlayer carried it. Probably Clee's munderings had more to do with an reticence to show it. That and a vast amount of other stuff out there.........

 

[catsmate]

You have not got a clue about drag have you?

One of many, many, many things.

 

[catsmate]

You seem confused yourself. You do know most entertainers that do drag are not going to be trans folk? You have confused drag & trans.

Many aren't even gay.

 

[Upchurch]

Monty Python were dragsters all the time, but the content would never get aired now.

Except on Google Play, iTunes, Netflix and Amazon. Plus free-to-air TV.
Stop lying.

You can add YouTube and ISF to that list.

 

[catsmate]

There are some facts bigoted nonsense to conjure with.

1. Drag is designed to confuse.

Lie. The term is 'entertain'.

2. Children are able to be confused.

Like all humans. You are certainly confused about many, many, things.

3. Children are being told they might be a different sex.

Another lie. Children are being introduced to the idea that if they feel' 'different' that's OK.

These are perilous times and devils' advocacy is entertaining to the moment someone loses an eye.

Oh sweet jeebus, the End Time bollocks..

These kids are losing their freaking lives and all this special pleading for fun and circuses is missing the point.

What children are losing their lives?

 

[Darat]

...snip...

3. In a very slight amount of fairness to the other side I do think it's fairly obvious that what Monty Python and Dame Edna and the like was doing in the 70s-90s and modern drag performances are doing is pretty clearly not exactly the same thing. I do think it is a little disingenuous to 100% in a perfect 1:1 ratio equate comic drag with what we're talking about.

Yes and no. That may be the case in the USA but drag of all sorts has been mainstream entertainment in the UK since before we were the UK. One of the examples I use above is the now dead Paul O'Grady doing his very traditional "glamorous" drag character Lilly Savage, that's drag like Ru'Paul. O'Grady before he transitioned into mainstream TV was one of the leading drag acts that did the gay pubs and clubs up and down the UK. Now of course the mainstream entertainment Lilly Savage character wasn't quite as risqué when he did Blankety Blank and didn't drop the f-bomb outside of outtakes, but it was still the same acerbic funny character, with 6 inch stilettos and fishnet tights.

 

[acbytesla]

You are lucky to not live in this dismal town.

I've been to Auckland. It's a beautiful town with great people. I would love to live there.

 

[pgwenthold]

Still no examples of kids confused by dudes in dresses.

But see, the problem is....if kids see dudes in dresses, they might think that it is ok for dudes to wear dresses. And since dudes wearing dresses are bad, that means kids will be confused, and not be able to distinguish bad from ok. This is why they get confused.

Of course, that only works if you start with the premise that there is something wrong with dudes in dresses. If you don't accept that premise, then there is no problem.

This was the same issue with gay marriage. The big concern about legalizing gay marriage is that, think of the kids, they will be taught in schools that gay marriage is legal. And that is going to make them confused because we tell them that gay marriage is wrong. We can't allow schools to tell them that gay marriage is legal, even if it is. The horror!

The reason kids get confused about drag is that there are those who keep insisting that it is bad but can't explain why. Why again is it wrong for dudes to wear dresses? Oh, they are groomers! What are they grooming kids to do? Wear dresses! So what if they do?

Drugs are bad, m'kay? And don't do drugs, 'cause they're bad. And if you do drugs, you're bad, m'kay? 'Cause drugs are bad.

 

[pgwenthold]

"I'm a lumberjack, and I'm ok,
I sleep all night and work all day.

I like to dress up in women's clothing,
And hang around in bars!"

Well, I'm not the world's most masculine man
But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man
And so is Lola

 

[pgwenthold]

If Drag is bad because it's "confusing" then the offsides rule in ice hockey is a thousand Satans condensed into one.

I think you mean the "icing" call.

Offsides is pretty simple.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The reason kids get confused about drag is that there are those who keep insisting that it is bad but can't explain why. Why again is it wrong for dudes to wear dresses? Oh, they are groomers! What are they grooming kids to do? Wear dresses! So what if they do?

I think one of the things is kids have a real hard time understanding the world and take a long time to get to understanding, but pick up (on a subconscious level) when they are being, for lack of a better term bull *******.

We give kids too much credit for being able to understand stuff, too little credit for not picking up on when we don't and are just winging it.

 

[Stacyhs]

Samson, can you confirm that you are or are not fluent or even conversant in English? Are you using a translator? Knowing this would explain a lot, but not all, in your posts.

 

[gnome]

Trying to connect drag entertainment to questions of trans identity is an obtuse point of view, in my opinion reflecting an unwillingness to try to comprehend details of the issue. I see it as waving a hand at anything gender-related that the person finds distasteful or worrisome and saying "ick". Which is a valid opinion I suppose but not very useful for describing rational policy.

 

[Paul2]

The best reason that I can think of kids being "confused" is because certain parents want to shelter their children from the mundane realities of the world (people who aren't straight exist) and are getting upset that everyone in their community isn't doing their part to keep up the fiction. It's like a parent getting upset because one of their neighbors doesn't play along about the fantasy of Santa Claus being a real person and the kid catches wise.

So yeah, I can see how it's confusing for kids that are being taught by their parents that gays are deviants and that sexual and gender identity are only exist within an extremely proscribed way only to have them encounter people whose mere existence seems to contradict these teachings.

That's the problem with orthodoxy, you kinda need the whole community to buy in for it to work reliably. You can't have gay people openly existing and participating in the community if your teachings to your children is meant to demonize them. You can't have people openly and wantonly bucking gender norms if you mean to teach children that these kinds of things can't be transgressed.

I fail to see how this is society's problem. It's not really in the broader interest to assist parents in sheltering and emotionally crippling their children with bizarre hang-ups and anti-social attitudes.

A lot of the current reactionary freakout is probably attributed to this, that parents and other would-be enforcers of an extremely conservative social order are upset that the state is no longer doing the heavy lifting of forcing these norms onto the population, and in the free market of ideas, their product kinda sucks and can't compete with an more liberal attitude of live-and-let-live.

That is a sound analysis, I think.

 

[catsmate]

But see, the problem is....if kids see dudes in dresses, they might think that it is ok for dudes to wear dresses. And since dudes wearing dresses are bad, that means kids will be confused, and not be able to distinguish bad from ok. This is why they get confused.

Of course, that only works if you start with the premise that there is something wrong with dudes in dresses. If you don't accept that premise, then there is no problem.

This was the same issue with gay marriage. The big concern about legalizing gay marriage is that, think of the kids, they will be taught in schools that gay marriage is legal. And that is going to make them confused because we tell them that gay marriage is wrong. We can't allow schools to tell them that gay marriage is legal, even if it is. The horror!

The reason kids get confused about drag is that there are those who keep insisting that it is bad but can't explain why. Why again is it wrong for dudes to wear dresses? Oh, they are groomers! What are they grooming kids to do? Wear dresses! So what if they do?

Drugs are bad, m'kay? And don't do drugs, 'cause they're bad. And if you do drugs, you're bad, m'kay? 'Cause drugs are bad.

No doubt occurrences like this are all down to the pernicious influence of drag.....

 

[Hercules56]

I think drag shows are stupid. Men dressing as a very cartoonish and exaggerated or even delusional concept of what a woman is or should be. One could call it offensive to women.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I think drag shows are stupid. Men dressing as a very cartoonish and exaggerated or even delusional concept of what a woman is or should be. One could call it offensive to women.

Pageantry generally is not my cup of tea, and that includes drag, but that's neither here nor there when you consider whether or not you should support them when being targeted by blood-thirsty bigots and reactionaries.

 

[Armitage72]

Yeah there is no way I'm going to google search for that!

Samson admitted that it was a term they made up for something that supposedly actually happened. We're waiting for an explanation of what the made up term was referencing. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[catsmate]

I think drag shows are stupid. Men dressing as a very cartoonish and exaggerated or even delusional concept of what a woman is or should be. One could call it offensive to women.

Have you considered asking some actual women?