• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: The Russian invasion of Ukraine part 7

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Great Zaganza said:
I'm CERTAIN they meant to do it.

The whole goal of the war is to cripple Ukraine, and blowing the dam is doing exactly that for at least a decade.
Click to expand...
Following the dam buster raid in 1943, the Germans rebuilt both breached dams in months. It won't take anything like a decade to repair this dam but the work is unlikely to start until the area is secured.
 
jeremyp said:
Following the dam buster raid in 1943, the Germans rebuilt both breached dams in months. It won't take anything like a decade to repair this dam but the work is unlikely to start until the area is secured.
Click to expand...

I got the impression this dam was a different order of magnitude...but happy to be corrected.
 
jeremyp said:
Following the dam buster raid in 1943, the Germans rebuilt both breached dams in months. It won't take anything like a decade to repair this dam but the work is unlikely to start until the area is secured.
Click to expand...

Most of the damage isn't to the dam, but downstream from the flooding.
 
jeremyp said:
Following the dam buster raid in 1943, the Germans rebuilt both breached dams in months. It won't take anything like a decade to repair this dam but the work is unlikely to start until the area is secured.
Click to expand...

you do realize that the Kakhovka Dam is/was orders of magnitude larger than all those three dams combined?
 
jeremyp said:
Following the dam buster raid in 1943, the Germans rebuilt both breached dams in months. It won't take anything like a decade to repair this dam but the work is unlikely to start until the area is secured.
Click to expand...


To add to the other responses, the Möhne and Edersee dams' impoundments are measured in millions of cubic meters. The Khakovka Dam's impoundment is measured in trillions of cubic meters.

Additionally, the Nazis mobilized a huge amount of resources and undoubtedly prioritized neither efficiency nor safety in the reconstruction effort.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Not easy to cross a swamp and river
Click to expand...

It's not swampy, its sandy. They just need to wait a few more weeks perhaps for it to dry. Yt video I just watched made a case that Ukrwine will likely attack there. I doubt it was a local commanders decision. The Russian army is very centralized, they don't have much decision making authority.

https://youtu.be/UNObeNlsTU0

Also a Russia counterattack was slowed because of their own minefield.
 
https://twitter.com/ostapyarysh/status/1671955878180782099

Any use of a tactical nuclear weapon by Russia, Belarus, or their proxies, or the destruction of a nuclear facility that disperses radioactive contaminants into NATO territory would be viewed as an attack on NATO itself - resolution introduced by
@SenBlumenthal @LindseyGrahamSC

“This resolution is meant to send a message to Vladimir Putin and to his military: they will be destroyed if they use tactical nuclear weapons or if they destroy a nuclear plant in a way that threatens surrounding NATO nations" -
@SenBlumenthal
 
SpitfireIX said:
To add to the other responses, the Möhne and Edersee dams' impoundments are measured in millions of cubic meters. The Khakovka Dam's impoundment is measured in trillions of cubic meters.

Additionally, the Nazis mobilized a huge amount of resources and undoubtedly prioritized neither efficiency nor safety in the reconstruction effort.
Click to expand...

I don't think that the volume of the reservoir is the interesting number here. Southern Ukraine is generally very flat, the Dniepr river has a very low gradient, and the volume of the reservoir is due to its length and width, not its depths.
The difficulties in building dams have more to do with the required height, and the pressure at their feet, than with their width or the lake's volume.

The Möhne dam has a height of 32-40 meters, the Kakhovka dam 22-37 meters - depending on what you consider bottom and top. The Kakhovka dam is of course much longer - 3,600 m vs 650 m - but much of that is now on dry land and thus the easy part to rebuild (I don't know the width of the river at the dam now that the reservoir has run empty - but it's going to be only a fraction of the dam's length).

True, the German dams were rebuilt in the 1940s in a hurry and with less-than-optimal regard to best engineering practices and world-standard safety, but both the Möhne and the Eder dam still stand today and do their job. Of course, over time, they have been repaired and refurbished a few times, but I am ready to believe that any dam would see such treatment over the course of 80 years.

The challenges to rebuilding the Kakhovka dam lie not so much in the size of the project but in the necessity to drive the Russians out for good.
 
lobosrul5 said:
https://twitter.com/ostapyarysh/status/1671955878180782099

Any use of a tactical nuclear weapon by Russia, Belarus, or their proxies, or the destruction of a nuclear facility that disperses radioactive contaminants into NATO territory would be viewed as an attack on NATO itself - resolution introduced by
@SenBlumenthal @LindseyGrahamSC

“This resolution is meant to send a message to Vladimir Putin and to his military: they will be destroyed if they use tactical nuclear weapons or if they destroy a nuclear plant in a way that threatens surrounding NATO nations" -
@SenBlumenthal
Click to expand...

I don't think Graham represents a majority of the GOP with this idea, nor Blumethal a majority of the Democratic Party, nor does the US Senate legitimately represent NATO.
 
Oystein said:
I don't think Graham represents a majority of the GOP with this idea, nor Blumethal a majority of the Democratic Party, nor does the US Senate legitimately represent NATO.
Click to expand...

Video: https://www.c-span.org/video/?52893...nthal-news-conference-russian-nuclear-threats


I don't think they've claimed the US Senate represents NATO, rather its a resolution that such an attack will be considered by the US Senate as an attack on NATO. The US Senate is by far the more important of our two legislative bodies on foreign matters, not sure all of their powers exactly. Near the end of the video Graham says something like if Russia does something that makes parts of NATO countries uninhabitable they would consider it an attack on NATO... I think that implies if Poland or Romania invoked 5, they'd consider it legitmate.

Bipartisanship is rare in US Congress these days, 2 names that big in the Senate from opposite parties come together and the odds of it passing are quite high (I'd guess 80% of Dems, 30% of GOP).. I'm not exactly sure what it would mean legally though, possibly nothing.
 
Last edited:
lobosrul5 said:
It's not swampy, its sandy. They just need to wait a few more weeks perhaps for it to dry.
Click to expand...

And what are the three perils of the drained lake basins? First, there are the missile spurts; those aren't very accurate. Then, there's the lightning sand. Finally, there are the ROUSs, Russians of Undisciplined Soldiery.
 
Meanwhile Russia is inventing more red lines.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-ukraine-uk-missiles-strike-bridge-to-crimea

Sergei Shoigu, the Russian defence minister, said on Tuesday that the potential use of US-made Himars and the Storm Shadow missiles against targets in Crimea would mark the west’s “full involvement in the conflict and would entail immediate strikes upon decision-making centres in Ukrainian territory”.
Click to expand...

Russia tried to capture/kill Zelensky in the first hours of the invasion, and Russia is not holding back anyway. Including genocide, and other war crimes. So it's not even a hollow threat.

I also liked the idea in the first paragraph of the article, not quoted, that Russia "accused" Ukraine of using Storm Shadow for the purpose for which it had been supplied.
 
jimbob said:
Meanwhile Russia is inventing more red lines.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-ukraine-uk-missiles-strike-bridge-to-crimea



Russia tried to capture/kill Zelensky in the first hours of the invasion, and Russia is not holding back anyway. Including genocide, and other war crimes. So it's not even a hollow threat.

I also liked the idea in the first paragraph of the article, not quoted, that Russia "accused" Ukraine of using Storm Shadow for the purpose for which it had been supplied.
Click to expand...

From your quote... "entail immediate strikes upon decision-making centres in Ukrainian territory" just makes me wonder if that'll be the new excuse for their near daily attempted strikes at decision-making centers in Ukrainian territory.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom