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Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

Darat said:
In my entire life, in the real world and online for me it's been a grand total of zero. (ETA: Have to put in -of course - as far as I can recollect.)

(That is working in or for large companies with HR departments desperate to show they do something, that is working in "customer facing" roles and with entire teams of people the incel movement rejected as being too weird and introverted for them. And in my personal life knowing a diverse group of people.)

And yes I would think it ludicrous if someone wanted me use a new word as their personal pronoun but you know what - I'd try. It's no skin off my nose, pronouns are not something particularly important for me and I already try to remember many folks' foibles and strange little ticks as it helps to keep life running smoothly.
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My count is zero too.
Where that count stumbles is the one case where a family is torn asunder by gender ideology.
 
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Upchurch said:
She's still a mathematician speaking outside her field of expertise.
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What is your field of expertise?

I find it quite amusing when people on this forum try to disqualify a point of view because the person putting it forward is not an expert in some relevant topic. This forum is full of people who put forth opinions on subjects in which they are not experts. Attack the argument, not the person.

Helen Joyce, by the way has not been a mathematician for at least twenty years. She has been a journalist for most of that time and has been involved in the trans debate since 2018 including writing a book. Your quoted statement above is false. Stop using it.
 
jeremyp said:
What is your field of expertise?

I find it quite amusing when people on this forum try to disqualify a point of view because the person putting it forward is not an expert in some relevant topic. This forum is full of people who put forth opinions on subjects in which they are not experts. Attack the argument, not the person.

Helen Joyce, by the way has not been a mathematician for at least twenty years. She has been a journalist for most of that time and has been involved in the trans debate since 2018 including writing a book. Your quoted statement above is false. Stop using it.
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Well said. Of course it’s far easier to dismiss someone for “not being qualified” than actually address their comments….
 
jeremyp said:
What is your field of expertise?

I find it quite amusing when people on this forum try to disqualify a point of view because the person putting it forward is not an expert in some relevant topic. This forum is full of people who put forth opinions on subjects in which they are not experts. Attack the argument, not the person.

Helen Joyce, by the way has not been a mathematician for at least twenty years. She has been a journalist for most of that time and has been involved in the trans debate since 2018 including writing a book. Your quoted statement above is false. Stop using it.
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Helen JoyceWP spent most of the last 20 years working for The Economist around statistics and finance, two very mathematics related subjects. You don’t have to know anything about a topic to write a book on it. My own Senator Josh Hawley wrote a book on manliness, for crying out loud.

BUT, you misunderstood the nature of my argument with Samson and how he’s been using Joyce. If you had kept reading:
Upchurch said:
You been trying to pass Joyce off as an authority for a while. Why should anyone care about Joyce’s opinion on a topic in which she has no particular expertise? What makes her opinion better than yours or mine?
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I’m not arguing with Joyce. She’s not here to argue with. Joyce is Samson’s argument because he isn’t presenting an argument of his own, or barely doing so. I am attacking Samson’s argument because Samson’s argument is a logical fallacy: an argument from authority. Not even a relevant authority, at that.
 
Darat said:
In my entire life, in the real world and online for me it's been a grand total of zero. (ETA: Have to put in -of course - as far as I can recollect.)

(That is working in or for large companies with HR departments desperate to show they do something, that is working in "customer facing" roles and with entire teams of people the incel movement rejected as being too weird and introverted for them. And in my personal life knowing a diverse group of people.)

And yes I would think it ludicrous if someone wanted me use a new word as their personal pronoun but you know what - I'd try. It's no skin off my nose, pronouns are not something particularly important for me and I already try to remember many folks' foibles and strange little ticks as it helps to keep life running smoothly.
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Sounds like you’ve surrendered to the woke mob. If you really believed in freedom, you’d refuse to refer to people in the way they preferred. That’s how emotionally-healthy adults behave.
 
johnny karate said:
Sounds like you’ve surrendered to the woke mob. If you really believed in freedom, you’d refuse to refer to people in the way they preferred. That’s how emotionally-healthy adults behave.
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I'll PM you the short list of my personal self identifications for you to unquestioningly comply with. Because you never, ever question anyone's claims, right? Or insult them over their lifestyles? Don't weasel, now. You feel perfectly free to deliberately insult peeps based on how they subjectively identify. And no it's not "that's different". The only difference is that you a priori give positive and unimpugnable credibility to a claimed trans person.

And btw, I agree to give them the benefit of the doubt regarding sex ID, and to comply. That doesn't make your actual supporting arguments sound. We can say you shouldn't murder either, but if your argument is that it's because God says not to, the argument still sucks.
 
Thermal said:
Because you never, ever question anyone's claims, right? Or insult them over their lifestyles? Don't weasel, now. You feel perfectly free to deliberately insult peeps based on how they subjectively identify. And no it's not "that's different". The only difference is that you a priori give positive and unimpugnable credibility to a claimed trans person.
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If you're asking if you can harass students, faculty, and guests on CU Boulder campus, the answer is probably no.
 
Upchurch said:
CU Boulder attendees are being asked to "comply" or respect preferred pronouns, as far as I can see.
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...while going into detail about the xes and zhirs. That's getting into silly territory, that no one should be expected to intellectually stoop to.
 
Thermal said:
I'll PM you the short list of my personal self identifications for you to unquestioningly comply with. Because you never, ever question anyone's claims, right? Or insult them over their lifestyles? Don't weasel, now. You feel perfectly free to deliberately insult peeps based on how they subjectively identify. And no it's not "that's different". The only difference is that you a priori give positive and unimpugnable credibility to a claimed trans person.
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I can honestly say that I have never addressed someone by title, name, or pronoun in a way that they didn’t want to be addressed, particularly in a professional setting or one that otherwise has a code of conduct. You know, like this forum through which we are communicating now, where we all have to call each some variation of our ridiculous usernames by force of rule.

So send your little list, Thermal. If I have the need to address you by title, name, or pronoun, Thermal, I’ll be happy to comply with your preference, Thermal.

And btw, I agree to give them the benefit of the doubt regarding sex ID, and to comply. That doesn't make your actual supporting arguments sound. We can say you shouldn't murder either, but if your argument is that it's because God says not to, the argument still sucks.
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I guess maybe I just have the woke mind virus, but I have better things to do than second guess why someone wants me to call them a certain pronoun. Easier just to extend them that simple courtesy and move on with my life.
 
Thermal said:
...while going into detail about the xes and zhirs. That's getting into silly territory, that no one should be expected to intellectually stoop to.
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Yes this is all very silly, Thermal. I can’t believe there are organizations with rules that require us to address people how they prefer to be addressed, Thermal. I simply can’t imagine living under the yolk of such oppression, Thermal.
 
From the beginning of the OP article:

If you don’t know someone’s pronouns, don’t assume gendered pronouns and use gender-neutral ones, like they or ze.
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Yeah, this is the part that is pissing me off. No one with normal intelligence living in 21st century America would or should refer to a stranger as "ze" for no reason.
 
Thermal said:
From the beginning of the OP article:



Yeah, this is the part that is pissing me off. No one with normal intelligence living in 21st century America would or should refer to a stranger as "ze" for no reason.
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I know what you mean, Thermal. It's hard to believe there are times when we have to call people something we think is stupid just because that's what they want to be called, Thermal.
 
johnny karate said:
Yes this is all very silly, Thermal. I can’t believe there are organizations with rules that require us to address people how they prefer to be addressed, Thermal. I simply can’t imagine living under the yolk of such oppression, Thermal.
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Let's see if your reply is A) pointed, or B) stupid. Since we are talking about pronouns (the OP article titles itself "Pronouns" as opposed to "Titles" to help you out with that), which pronouns would be the logical substitution?

"Yes, this is all very silly, you."

"Yes, this is all very silly, he."

"Yes, this is all very silly, they".

Gotta go with B, here.

ETA: and as a gentle reminder, you were asked about respecting subjective identifications, not titles.
 
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jeremyp said:
What is your field of expertise?

I find it quite amusing when people on this forum try to disqualify a point of view because the person putting it forward is not an expert in some relevant topic. This forum is full of people who put forth opinions on subjects in which they are not experts. Attack the argument, not the person.
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There's a huge difference. Posters aren't citing other posters.
 
Thermal said:
Let's see if your reply is A) pointed, or B) stupid. Since we are talking about pronouns (the OP article titles itself "Pronouns" as opposed to "Titles" to help you out with that), which pronouns would be the logical substitution?

"Yes, this is all very silly, you."

"Yes, this is all very silly, he."

"Yes, this is all very silly, they".

Gotta go with B, here.

ETA: and as a gentle reminder, you were asked about respecting subjective identifications, not titles.
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Why would anyone ever use any of those sentences, Thermal?

And who is asking them to, Thermal?
 
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