• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

Zig was having a similar hard time with how words work. So, I provided him a source. This was his reaction.
Ziggurat said:
True according to whom? A UN panel?

I don't accept them as authoritative.
Click to expand...

Continuing on the next page, I gave at least a half dozen government, legal and medical sources that words can cause violence, of which there are many types and classifications.
 
Last edited:
Violence

Same root as violate.

No physical touch required.

We accuse government authorities or agencies with doing so all the time.

How does a non-coporeal being violate you without physically touching you?

Enough of this "violence=onlyphysical attacks" nonsense.

One of these days I'm going to do a zen diagram of "people who minimize others" and "people who take umbrage over nearly everything." I will only need to draw one circle.
 
theprestige said:
I see we're retreating en masse from the idea that misgendering people is a kind of violence.

So... what harm, exactly?

Where are the media reports of people alleging harm?

Where are the criminal cases of people alleging harm?

Where are the civil cases of people alleging harm?

Why don't we see any of the above for similar acts of rudeness, like calling women "sweetie", or calling a man a son of a bitch?
Click to expand...


Pubmed
Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth.
Click to expand...


Link
Transgender (trans) people face unique stressors, including the stress some trans people experience when their gender identity is not affirmed. Trans people also experience higher rates of discrimination and harassment than their cisgender counterparts and, as a result, experience poorer mental health outcomes. They are also at a greater risk for suicide as they are twice as likely to think about and attempt suicide than LGB people (Haas et al., 2011; McNeill et al., 2017; Irwin et al., 2014).
Click to expand...
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
I've been referring to people whose gender I don't know as they for the last twenty years and more. And that was before sight or sound of this manufactoversy.
Click to expand...

On the next page or so after that post, angrysoba proceeded to quote all the times Hercules56 used they/them/their as a singular pronoun just in this thread. It was quite illustrative of what happens when you use skepticism (“I don’t use singular ‘them’”) without applying critical thinking (“How do I know if I use singular ‘them’?”).
 
Last edited:
Using a placeholder when you don't know is a pretty large leap from using the wrong word when you do know.

The weirdest thing about trans arguments is that there is an unspoken acknowledgement that a trans person feels that they are an X in a Y body, basically either acknowledging a soul, or acknowledging an identification disorder, which would be a form of delusion, and don't skeptics generally not encourage delusions?

I mean, I'm fine with calling a trans person s/he as they identify, just out of sympathy for how disorienting it must be to feel like you're in the "wrong" body. But the whole steaming pile of gender justifications is misdirection, and throws the door open wide for bull **** gender IDs, which turns the whole gig into a joke, and hurts the original compassionate position.

Transsexuals deserve the same dignity and comfort as everyone else. Xes and ocelot-kins and my current favorite 2s's (which sledgehammer the spirit assumption) indicate you need to get your head out of the clouds for a bit.
 
The question of nature vs nurture is just starting to be explored in earnest...

Sciencedaily
Some of the first biological evidence of the incongruence transgender individuals experience, because their brain indicates they are one sex and their body another, may have been found in estrogen receptor pathways in the brain of 30 transgender individuals.
Click to expand...
 
Talking about whether or not pronoun usage can be violent relies strongly on how those pronouns are intended, hence definitions and usage intent are solidly on the menu.
 
And violence, in it's most elementary definition,is the intent to harm. Therefore, nailing down the user's intent is not even a mild drift.
 
Upchurch said:
The OP article made the context clear.
Click to expand...

I agree with Thermal, it bears on the subject.

From the article...
When someone refers to another person using the wrong pronouns, especially on purpose, that can lead to that person feeling disrespected and can lead to dysphoria, exclusion and alienation.
Click to expand...

Are we disrespecting a lifestyle, or are we disrespecting what a person biologically is. The degree to which violence is being committed (by not using the requested pronouns) is a little stronger if the latter is true.
 
Ryan O'Dine said:
I agree with Thermal, it bears on the subject.

From the article...


Are we disrespecting a lifestyle, or are we disrespecting what a person biologically is. The degree to which violence is being committed (by not using the requested pronouns) is a little stronger if the latter is true.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If I refer to a trans man as a she, that is denying their "selfhood" and that would be just damned mean. If refer to a "zhir" as s/he, it means I'm not going to play stupid games to score politically correct points.
 
Upchurch said:
"Lifestyle choice", huh? How quickly history will repeat itself.

It doesn't matter what you're disrespecting. CU Boulder doesn't want students, faculty, or visitors harassed on campus.
Click to expand...

And the student group and the article in question specifically refers to pronoun usage. But I'm happy to take a step back here. I'd just emphasize that I'm not arguing it's a lifestyle choice. I hope I didn't give that impression.
 
Upchurch said:
"Lifestyle choice", huh? How quickly history will repeat itself.

It doesn't matter what you're disrespecting. CU Boulder doesn't want students, faculty, or visitors harassed on campus.
Click to expand...

I'd feel highly harassed by being told to refer to someone as a zir.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom