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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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Once any group gets above Dunbar's Number you can find a few ******** in it, hell you can almost always find a few ******** who are self-hating ********. No bell curves are getting broken by that truth bomb.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
There's really nothing new here, it's the same old TERF viewpoint. Your article says as much.



TERFs don't like trans women and don't want them included in their conception of the queer community, this lesbian dustup is just an extension of that split.
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offtopic,
I'm confused about this but when looking at the goals of the lbqt+n communities, it looks like most of the letters are fighting against stereotypes, whereas the t is fighting to conform to a stereotype?

What is the thing that overrides this mutual exclusiveness so that theyre fighting under the same banner?

I don't get it, it's probably my fault and need it explained to me though.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
Because it is not allowing other people to live as they see fit when they are not harming you in any way. This is basic stuff, lad, not rocket science.
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How is not considering a transwoman to be an actual woman preventing them from living as they see fit? That claim doesn't seem basic at all.
 
tyr_13 said:
'Some trans women are incels' is hardly a novel observation. That some make this out to be bigotry against trans women or bigotry against lesbians is also, unsurprising.

Can the set of lesbians who refuse whatever relationship (romantic, sexual, etc) also include those motivated to do so primarily from bigotry? Sure. Is even a meaningful minority of that set made up of those motivated by bigotry? Exceedingly unlikely. No one is entitled to another's body, but if you're going to reject all people of a group like say, black people, you don't have to reject their identity to do so.

Do some trans women make too big a deal of this rejection? Yes, of course. Dating is hard and especially for them so the frustrations must be compounding which in turn can make for irrational things said in hurt. Do some lesbians make too big a deal of that? Yes, of course. Thier experiences also lead to being on guard and sensitive to such accusations.

Do some cishet activities make too big a deal of all that? Yes, of course. And they as a group have zero of the mechanisms driving the bad calls from the other groups.
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People get awfully touchy when you suggest that their personal preferences may well be heavily biased by prejudices of various sorts, but this is probably true for most people.

A person who says that they categorically don't date or are attracted to black people shouldn't really get offended at the rather obvious observation that perhaps this preference is at least partially motivated by some racism. This observation is not a demand that they immediately rectify the issue or run out to date the first black person they see, and it's entirely possible to both recognize that people have their preferences informed by prejudice while also respecting that people have total veto power in who they find desirable sexual/romantic partners.

I find that many people treat prejudice like it's a binary. Either you're tolerant or you're a frothing at the mouth bigot. The truth is usually much more nuanced, and nobody is immune from the prejudices that are common in whatever society they exist in. A more mature person might be able to accept that they are not bigoted but are still influenced by prejudices in many ways. Such reflection may lead to change the way they think and act, or it may not.

Introspection, it's not a dirty word.
 
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Why should any lesbian have to justify that she's not into the bone? Hey straight guys: would you feel you have to explain why you are not into a potential partner who's packing pipe?
 
Thermal said:
Why should any lesbian have to justify that she's not into the bone? Hey straight guys: would you feel you have to explain why you are not into a potential partner who's packing pipe?
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They don't have to justify anything, but perhaps they shouldn't piss their pants in anger if other similarly identifying lesbians don't feel the same way.
 
There are many similar thought experiments which show that, no transwomen are not really actually women. It will get handwaved away by the usual suspects anyway, who are more attached to ideology than to reality.

Nobody actually believes transwomen really, actually are women, I'm pretty sure. That's because they're not.
 
While a person has the right to be Transsexual if theats what they want to do it should come as no surprise to them that elements of society reject their notion that a person can merely declare themselves another gender and have the majority of people accept it. Women don't want a person born a male in their restrooms or dressing areas. I don't blame them. If biology says your a man or a woman thats what you are whether you like it or not.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
People get awfully touchy when you suggest that their personal preferences may well be heavily biased by prejudices of various sorts, but this is probably true for most people.

A person who says that they categorically don't date or are attracted to black people shouldn't really get offended at the rather obvious observation that perhaps this preference is at least partially motivated by some racism. ..snip
Introspection, it's not a dirty word.
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Racism implies thinking lesser of the subject? when that might not be the case at all.
I prefer my partners to not look like my mum, but I'm not thinking less of the people that do,
it's not based on judgement of the person at all.
 
And we're again having the exact same discussion for the... I've stopped counting... time.

We can't have any discussion except for the "Are transwomen women or not?" one? Every time we have a side discussion about it we're drawn right back to the main argument.
 
Blank said:
Why? I mean if you think it is absurd there must be some reason that stance is superior to opposite stance.

I mean I can answer - "maybe" so how would you convince me that your stance on the issue is the correct one?
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The life of Lesbians is hard enough as it is, the last thing they need is to now be told that they must accept transgender women as women, otherwise they are bigots.
 
Upchurch said:
Is that what you believe?
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I am not convinced anyone has the right to force that view upon other people, and call them a "bigot" if they disagree.

Transgender woman says to Lesbian: "wanna go out sometime?"

Lesbian says "no thanks, I'll pass".

Transgender woman says: "dont you think Im pretty???"

Lesbian says: "Im sorry but you're just not my type".

Transgender woman says: "not your type?? is it because I am trans???"

Lesbian says: "I really didnt want to get into this with you, but if you must know, YES, its cause you are trans".

Transgender woman: "so you're a bigot!!!! you dont see me as a real woman. bigot!!!!"


Lesbian: " sigh.... :("
 
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