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Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

Hercules56 said:
Huh... Never imagined that is what our founding fathers wanted.
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This would be an example of actual emotional manipulation, appealing to the touchstones of our civic religion.

The 'founding fathers' (those who were in Congress, anyway) passed the Alien and Sedition Act in 1798, which restricted speech critical of the government. None of the states were proscribed from censoring their own citizens until the ratification of the 14th amendment, which was relatively toothless after the failure of reconstruction.

The 'fighting words' doctrine that you deny exists in the US came about during a time of routine violence towards Jehovah's Witnesses, and the case in question was on any serious reading about suppressing the free speech rights of same. That was in 1942.

We owe our current liberal understanding of free speech almost entirely to a series of decisions by an unusually liberal court in the second half of the 20th century. The founding fathers had ****-all to do with it.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Then you shouldn't bring up the founding fathers. Because the first amendment only protected you from FEDERAL prosecution for many decades after this countries founding. There were blasphemy laws all over the place in the US until pretty damned recently. Nor would they have been in favor of a University being mandated to NOT punish speech. Hell you could be kicked out for being even slightly rude or insulting to a professor in those days. Likely even whipped in some cases.

If CU-Boulder wants to kick students out for not using someone's preferred pronouns they are well within their right to do so. Just like if a Neo Nazi student kept calling their prof or a fellow student a "kike". I don't think the ACLU would've now, or ever, taken up such a case. And besides which, AFAIK, the CU-Boulder student group hasn't even suggested anyone be kicked out for using the wrong pronouns.
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Give it time. There are student groups calling for Zionists to be kicked out of universities. Those who use the wrong pronouns will likely be next.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Apparent sex is only culturally laden if your concept of sex relies on stereotypes alone.
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No. If it is informed by cultural ideas about things like typical dress, hairstyle, makeup, etc. for men and women at all, then it's culturally-laden. That's what 'culturally-laden' means.
 
Hercules56 said:
Unfortunately I think the most important speech to defend in the United States is that speech which many people find reprehensible.

Pornography, hate speech, blasphemy, socialism, insults, etc. If we allow such speech to be censored and persecuted, everybody else will be next, as it will have been ingrained into our heads and culture that censorship and persecution of undesirable speech is acceptable.
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The slope ain't that slippery ,bro. Murder is illegal, yet boxing is still fine.

And for the umpteenth ******* time, NO ONE IS CLAIMING THAT THE VERBAL VIOLENCE ALLUDED TO IN THE OP SHOULD BE CONSIDERED CRIMINAL.
 
Thermal said:
The slope ain't that slippery ,bro. Murder is illegal, yet boxing is still fine.

And for the umpteenth ******* time, NO ONE IS CLAIMING THAT THE VERBAL VIOLENCE ALLUDED TO IN THE OP SHOULD BE CONSIDERED CRIMINAL.
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We shall see. I'm a patient man.
 
Can we all agree that using the wrong pronoun to describe a transgender person, should never be treated as an assault equal to physical violence?
 
mumblethrax said:
No. If it is informed by cultural ideas about things like typical dress, hairstyle, makeup, etc. for men and women at all, then it's culturally-laden. That's what 'culturally-laden' means.
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I don't know what you’re talking about, I'm walking down the street assessing people's upper lip length and pelvic tilt like Robocop.

Edited by sarge: 
removed uncivil content
 
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Hercules56 said:
Can we all agree that using the wrong pronoun to describe a transgender person, should never be treated as an assault equal to physical violence?
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Sure... and please note the student group didn't use the term "physical violence" or "assault". Can you agree that its possible that their lack of the word "physical" or "assault" denotes that they did not mean to imply they are equal.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Sure... and please note the student group didn't use the term "physical violence" or "assault". Can you agree that its possible that their lack of the word "physical" or "assault" denotes that they did not mean to imply they are equal.
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hey man, none of these goons are reading past the Breitbart headline anyway. Context and nuance is for commies.
 
mumblethrax said:
No, you aren't. If you were patient you would reserve judgment. Instead you have made confident predictions on flimsy grounds.
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That's because this did not take place in a political and social vacuum. But again I am a patient man and we shall see what happens.
 
Hercules56 said:
That's because this did not take place in a political and social vacuum.
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These are the flimsy grounds I'm referring to.

But again I am a patient man and we shall see what happens.
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Since all you're saying is that something bad is going to happen at some point in the future, this prediction will just be indefinitely deferred. Like all apocalyptic predictions that have little relation to reality.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Apparent sex is only culturally laden if your concept of sex relies on stereotypes alone.

For most humans, apparent sex is based on a collection of characteristics that tend to be sex-correlated. This includes (but is not limited to) height relative to other people of a similar background, size of hands and feet, breadth of shoulders relative to hips, tilt of pelvis, angle of femur relative to plumb, shape of chin bone, shape of jaw bone, angel of the nose ridge relative to brows, heaviness of brow ridge and its prominence, presence of absence of breasts, presence or absence of adams apple, smoothness of skin, distance from bottom of nose to top of upper lip, shape of hips relative to waist.

We observe other people based on these characteristics, and are accurate in determining their sex in about 99.99% of cases. There will be exceptions for cultures in which the entirety of a person's body is hidden from view... which somehow only ever seems to be applied to females.
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The last time I saw a person out and about, and wasn't anything like certain which sex they were was... yesterday at the grocery store. Theres no way its 99.99% even excluding things like Islamic female garments.
 
Elaedith said:
Trans-ethnic identity is not 'viewed by consensus of world's experts in this field as a mental health disorder'. There is no such DSM-5 diagnosis. You are making things up again.
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Where did I state or imply that it was a specific DSM-V diagnosis?

By your "argument", someone claiming the identity of an Egyptian Pharaoh should not be viewed as suffering from a mental health disorder, on the basis that "there is no such DSM-V diagnosis".

I'm sorry (for you) that the world of medical science is not as you would wish it to be. But that's why we have medical experts, global amalgamations of medical experts, ongoing evaluations, categorisations and therapies (all based on amalgamated medical expertise and experience) and ongoing expert medical liaison with enlightened political/judicial/regulatory entities.

Now, back to your ironic wishful-thinking "making things up again" assessment..... :D :thumbsup:
 
Hercules56 said:
Sorry, folks dont get to arbitrarily redefine long established terms and concepts like "violence" in order to help their new political agenda of the week.

Well I guess they can try, but the rest of the world can laugh in their face.
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The only people I see "laughing in the face" of this are old-aged reactionaries, extreme right-wingers, fundamentalist religious zealots, and a very small (but very vocal) cadre of people on the interwebs who insist that they fall into none of the aforementioned categories....
 
LondonJohn said:
Where did I state or imply that it was a specific DSM-V diagnosis?
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When you said that somebody would benefit from reading the DSM-V (sic) and gave a 'hint' that they will find out from doing so that trans-ethnic identity is viewed by consensus as a mental health disorder.

By your "argument", someone claiming the identity of an Egyptian Pharaoh should not be viewed as suffering from a mental health disorder, on the basis that "there is no such DSM-V diagnosis".
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Somebody merely claiming that they identify as an Egyptian Pharaoh is not sufficient to diagnose them as having a mental health disorder.
 
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