Cont: The Russian invasion of Ukraine part 7

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Maybe he has done a better job of managing whose sons are being killed There aren't thousands of mothers protesting in major cities this time around.

Russian/Soviet armies have a fine tradition of heavily populating their cannon fodder divisions with non-Russian ethnic minorities. Even in a war with heavy losses, the Russian core might not be feeling the loss too hard.
 
Our worst calendar year in Vietnam was 1968, with 16,899 KIA. Its also a year known for being one of the worst in American history, and when Johnson lost a LOT of support for the war ("If I've lost Cronkite..."). 5x as many casualties, or ~7x if adjusted for population, would've been totally intolerable in the USA.

If we are doing population numbers, the USA had 133 million in 1941, i.e. slightly smaller than Russia's population now. They lost approximately 400,000 people during the war that started in that year. Russia is therefore losing men at about twice the rate of the USA during a World War in which they were fighting - and winning - on more than two fronts.
 
Russian/Soviet armies have a fine tradition of heavily populating their cannon fodder divisions with non-Russian ethnic minorities. Even in a war with heavy losses, the Russian core might not be feeling the loss too hard.

Indeed, which, also given the way they have been treated, might cause problems when those ethnic minority troops return, bitter, full of betrayal with experience in fighting, and possibly believing that one aim was to kill as many of them of fighting age in order to prevent any uprisings.
 
Indeed, which, also given the way they have been treated, might cause problems when those ethnic minority troops return, bitter, full of betrayal with experience in fighting, and possibly believing that one aim was to kill as many of them of fighting age in order to prevent any uprisings.

Russia, and Putin in particular, are no strangers to the notion of having to suppress disgruntled ethnic minorities. Hell, the current war could be seen as one in a long series of overt acts to discipline the non-Russian parts (or former parts) of the country.
 
Russia, and Putin in particular, are no strangers to the notion of having to suppress disgruntled ethnic minorities. Hell, the current war could be seen as one in a long series of overt acts to discipline the non-Russian parts (or former parts) of the country.

One obvious place, given the use of Kadyrov, is the Caucasus as either Putin uses the Chechens under Kadyrov and weakens his client, or he allows Kadyrov to protect his troops, which will contrast with the other Caucasian republics, and possibly fuel separatism there.
 
This whole Ukraine thing is hard work.

Let's pick an easier target...

How about Chatham Islands?!!?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/30...for-chatham-islands-in-cryptic-email-to-stuff

They are perfect! Some volcanic geological features without active volcanism makes them the ideal location for an secret lair, and having its own time zone (UTC+13:45 in the Southern summer) is sure to confuse enemies and hostile missiles! And surely outside HIMARS and Storm Shadow range from Ukraine! And no way Prigozhin's men could desert and flee from there!
 
They are perfect! Some volcanic geological features without active volcanism makes them the ideal location for an secret lair, and having its own time zone (UTC+13:45 in the Southern summer) is sure to confuse enemies and hostile missiles! And surely outside HIMARS and Storm Shadow range from Ukraine! And no way Prigozhin's men could desert and flee from there!


Yeah, but ...

Wiki says there's around 800 people living there. He'd have to send nearly all of his troops to keep from being overwhelmed.
 
Assuming he's not just going as a tourist, he'd have to make an amphibious landing against New Zealand's navy. They have 2 frigates and some supply and patrol vessels. It might be tough going for the Russians!
 
Also depends on what you mean by "Ukraine". I imagine Ukraine won't ever claim these attacks whether they were behind them or not. It easily could be some spooks and/or their proxies, or even some paramilitaries acting under their own initiative with little to no authorization or even knowledge from above.

The border between Ukraine and Russia was rather porous before the war, and Russia has no shortage of domestic enemies who might decide to take action. These suicide drones are rather cheap and easy to use and lord knows explosives aren't hard to come by in a war zone.


I hope it's not true that Ukraine has been launching these drone attacks on Moscow. This should purely be a defensive war and attacking the capital city of the invading country is not a defensive act.

I think Ukraine should do whatever possible to maintain the moral high ground.

I don't fully disagree, but it kind of sucks, then. It leaves them fighting with one arm tied behind their back. Further, with no direct consequences to Putin, it gives Russia room to carry on being beligerent.
The drones are reported to target the most expensive area of Moscow - with houses in the tens of millions of dollars, so full of those who have profited the most under Putin. Which makes me think it did have a strategic purpose, as they will demand more protection.




https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/drones-hit-several-buildings-moscow-mayor-2023-05-30/


Nice video pointing out some of the potential rationale behind the attacks.



Several points that I had made, and several that I hadn't thought of.

One that struck me is that if there are thousands of Muscovites filming the explosions, seeing the drones and sharing the media, it undermines the Russian propaganda narrative, which is getting increasingly implausible - Anders Puck Nielsen compared it to Comical Ali in the video.

Especially given how Putin has been trying shield the core of Russia (as he sees it) from the worst consequences of the war. It's another chink in the credibility of the regime.


Russia has now found an opponent large enough to play its own separatist games back at it on its soil. And, at the moment, with more inherent tensions within Russia than outside.
 
Nice video pointing out some of the potential rationale behind the attacks.



Several points that I had made, and several that I hadn't thought of.

One that struck me is that if there are thousands of Muscovites filming the explosions, seeing the drones and sharing the media, it undermines the Russian propaganda narrative, which is getting increasingly implausible - Anders Puck Nielsen compared it to Comical Ali in the video.

Especially given how Putin has been trying shield the core of Russia (as he sees it) from the worst consequences of the war. It's another chink in the credibility of the regime.


Russia has now found an opponent large enough to play its own separatist games back at it on its soil. And, at the moment, with more inherent tensions within Russia than outside.

Question is at what point does the morale of the Russian Army go into the crapper, and the soliders decide to just go home, a la 1917.
The Mutiny sequence of the classsic movie "Doctor Zhivago" is very accurate as to what happened.
 
Question is at what point does the morale of the Russian Army go into the crapper, and the soliders decide to just go home, a la 1917.
The Mutiny sequence of the classsic movie "Doctor Zhivago" is very accurate as to what happened.

Not really conditions were far far worse than any movie from the 1960's could possibly portray accurately. (I'm a bigtime David Lean fan fyi).

We'll see soon, but I expect many Russians to abandon their positions the moment they see Ukrainian armored approaching.
 
Question is at what point does the morale of the Russian Army go into the crapper, and the soliders decide to just go home, a la 1917.
The Mutiny sequence of the classsic movie "Doctor Zhivago" is very accurate as to what happened.

Go?

It's not been brilliant for a long time. And blocking units have already reportedly been used - especially by Wagner in Bakhmut.

But where there is scope for desertions, I expect to see those. And a lot more
 
Speaking of Bakhmut, if it was such a strategic linchpin for Moscow, how come they still haven't moved past it? Wasn't capturing the city supposed to expose Ukraine to an offensive breakthrough by the invaders? Weren't there supposed to be battalion task groups pent and latent, now let off the leash and on the road to Chasiv Yar?

Is the battle for Bakhmut really over, if Moscow still hasn't moved their fight beyond that position?
 
Speaking of Bakhmut, if it was such a strategic linchpin for Moscow, how come they still haven't moved past it? Wasn't capturing the city supposed to expose Ukraine to an offensive breakthrough by the invaders? Weren't there supposed to be battalion task groups pent and latent, now let off the leash and on the road to Chasiv Yar?

Is the battle for Bakhmut really over, if Moscow still hasn't moved their fight beyond that position?

They fought so hard, you can expect them to enjoy their victory a bit. Walk around a city a bit. Enjoy the scenery. Get used to that victorious feeling.
Going further ? What's there which isn't in Bakhmut ? See Bakhmut and die. That's what Russians always said. And many did.
 
Russian/Soviet armies have a fine tradition of heavily populating their cannon fodder divisions with non-Russian ethnic minorities. Even in a war with heavy losses, the Russian core might not be feeling the loss too hard.

Back in the stone age....well, the 80's, when I was in basic training, we saw some films on the Soviet army. One of the things they pointed out was that the conscripted infantry often did not speak Russian and the officers leading them often did not speak anything else but Russian.

The collapse of the Soviet union likely made things a little better but the tradition you pointed out seems to still be there.
 
Speaking of Bakhmut, if it was such a strategic linchpin for Moscow, how come they still haven't moved past it? Wasn't capturing the city supposed to expose Ukraine to an offensive breakthrough by the invaders? Weren't there supposed to be battalion task groups pent and latent, now let off the leash and on the road to Chasiv Yar?

Is the battle for Bakhmut really over, if Moscow still hasn't moved their fight beyond that position?

Watching the Liveuamap.com over the last couple of months shows the number of offensive ground attacks slowly dwindling. Not sure how much of that is them just running out of steam and how much is them getting ready for defensive operations.
 
Watching the Liveuamap.com over the last couple of months shows the number of offensive ground attacks slowly dwindling. Not sure how much of that is them just running out of steam and how much is them getting ready for defensive operations.


The idea was probably a repeat of the Popasna "Flower", which launched multiple attacks in multiple directions.
 
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