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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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d4m10n said:
Seems like someone has completely failed to notice left wing radical feminists, despite their tradition of writing polemics for decades in the UK.
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Seems like someone has completely failed to notice the glaring lack of public figures from the political/ideological left coming in to back or amplify anti-trans rhetoric/beliefs.

Why do you think that might be, d4m10n?
 
d4m10n said:
Because it is obviously wrong. An argument is (in)valid and/or (un)sound regardless of who wrote it down. There are a number of fallacies named after judging arguments based on who made them.
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Riiiight*. Meanwhile, back in the real world....

And it's time to sleep. Have fun with your collective toxic anti-trans echo chamber :D


* That must be why Gary Glitter's records are played on UK radio, and why they still show repeats of Top of the Pops where Jimmy Savile is hosting. Because as you so stunningly-correctly point out, we can - nay, we must - legitimately separate those activities from other things those people have done/believed in their lives.

Oh, wait.......... :rolleyes:
 
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LondonJohn said:
Seems like someone has completely failed to notice the glaring lack of public figures from the political/ideological left coming in to back or amplify anti-trans rhetoric/beliefs.
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Do public intellectuals like Kathleen StockWP and Sheila JeffreysWP and Julie BindelWP not count as public figures? Bestselling authors like Rowling?

Such quibbles aside, there was once a time when none of the public figures in Europe would come out for the idea of heliocentrismWP. Did that mean it was wrong, at the time?

Are you seriously trying to roll a gigantic bandwagon fallacy into a skeptics forum?
 
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d4m10n said:
Do public intellectuals like Kathleen Stock and Sheila Jeffreys and Julie Bindel not count as public figures? Bestselling authors like Rowling?
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Helen Joyce etc
The rest still have their jobs because they probably have mortgages and families.
 
Well, if I were a public left-wing figure who had something negative to say about transgenderism, I'd take one good look at the discourse and decide to let the unscientific mess crash and burn on its own.
 
d4m10n said:
Being aroused by nude females is very common for people with penises and is not same thing as lewd behavior in the criminal code.
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I don't think that applies for a majority of actual trans women.

I doubt research on the subject will easy to find, so I'll go on my anecdotal observations on it at this stage.
 
The Atheist said:
I don't think that applies for a majority of actual trans women.

I doubt research on the subject will easy to find, so I'll go on my anecdotal observations on it at this stage.
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What's the difference between an actual trans woman and a fake trans woman? And how can you tell?
 
Olmstead said:
Well, if I were a public left-wing figure who had something negative to say about transgenderism, I'd take one good look at the discourse and decide to let the unscientific mess crash and burn on its own.
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A reasonable notion except the pied piper will lure thousands more white middle class kids meanwhile.

(funded by big pharma)
 
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And here is a present clip where Kathleen Stock is discussed.
I wish Piers Morgan had let the sincere student speak more without interruption I might say, but she is vanquished nevertheless.

https://youtu.be/ae3x22zzg9Y
 
d4m10n said:
Do public intellectuals like Kathleen StockWP and Sheila JeffreysWP and Julie BindelWP not count as public figures? Bestselling authors like Rowling?
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You can add Joan SmithWP, Labour MPs Rosie DuffieldWP and Tonia AntoniazziWP, and SNP MP Joanna CherryWP to that list, if you like.

But to be fair to LondonJohn, none of the people you've listed would describe themselves as having an "anti-transgender stance", so maybe they are not who he is talking about.
 
Matthew Best said:
You can add Joan SmithWP, Labour MPs Rosie DuffieldWP and Tonia AntoniazziWP, and SNP MP Joanna CherryWP to that list, if you like.

But to be fair to LondonJohn, none of the people you've listed would describe themselves as having an "anti-transgender stance", so maybe they are not who he is talking about.
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I don't think believers in self-ID believe in self-ID on that question.
 
Ziggurat said:
What's the difference between an actual trans woman and a fake trans woman? And how can you tell?
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A genuine trans woman is someone born male who actually believes they're the wrong gender. A fake one is doing it to exploit women.

As I've said several times, there isn't an easy way to tell, and the onus on solving the problem rests with the trans community.
 
The Atheist said:
A genuine trans woman is someone born male who actually believes they're the wrong gender. A fake one is doing it to exploit women.

As I've said several times, there isn't an easy way to tell, and the onus on solving the problem rests with the trans community.
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I am perplexed by one thing.
The only trans person I ever knew was my brother.
I don't believe he was part of a trans community, yet many posters here talk of having a lot of trans friends.
How is this realistically true?
 
d4m10n said:
For the sake of our discussion here, it should be enough to ask whether other states ought to follow the example of California, which has (as you have said) made it perfectly clear that males have a right to enter spaces previously reserved to females in a state of undress. What's your take on that?
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For the sake of discussion you should perhaps select an example in which enough information is available to meaningfully discuss.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
For the sake of discussion you should perhaps select an example in which enough information is available to meaningfully discuss.
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You said "California law is quite clear" on the "question of whether she had a legal right to be there" in the women's area. My question is whether other states should follow California's clear-cut example, or whether they should allow places of public accommodation to segregate by sex instead of gender self-identification.
 
d4m10n said:
You said "California law is quite clear" on the "question of whether she had a legal right to be there" in the women's area. My question is whether other states should follow California's clear-cut example, or whether they should allow places to segregate by sex instead of gender self-identification.
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California still has this law and other places have similar policies. Presumably trans women are using the women's facilities there. Is there any evidence this is a problem?
 
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