Christianity is a grotesque blight!

Leumas said:
The above observation bares no truth and does not logically pass muster because proofs and facts and citations, definitively and rationally, always and invariably rend to shreds fallacious bare assertion and ipse dixit sophistry.
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So I find myself in the odd position of trying to figure out how the above statement, which stripped down amounts to the statement that proof and assertion are not the same thing, is a rebuttal to my observation that proof and assertion are not the same thing; and how to put that in a form that is polite.

But I see the referee nervously shuffling his deck of yellow cards on the sidelines, and Prudence (my muse in sensible shoes) whispers in my ear that it's about time to take a little break. See ya later, folks. Don't stick beans up your nose.
 
Leumas said:
The above observation bares no truth and does not logically pass muster because proofs and facts and citations, definitively and rationally, always and invariably rend to shreds fallacious bare assertion and ipse dixit sophistry.
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Are we bored with QED and moved on?
 
After the French Bourbons returned to power, Talleyrand remarked of them that they had learned nothing and forgotten nothing.
 
Thermal said:
As I see it, Christ's sacrifice was more along the lines of a soldier throwing himself on a grenade. It's not a "human sacrifice" as we would use that term, as in humans killing another human. It's taking one for the team voluntarily, writ large.
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Jesus saw the "grenade" and could have grabbed it and lobbed back at the enemy thus saving himself and his friends and getting rid of the enemy all in one fell swoop?

But instead... he decided to go through the melodrama of falling on the "grenade" and pretending to take one for his friends... knowing jolly well that he will be fine and then go around bragging about it and asking his friends and all of humanity to kiss his feet for saving them or else he will imprison them and eternally torture them in his dungeon?

Moreover... where does this melodramatic soldier's tale hold any similarity to Original sin and the desire of YHWH to get rid of his festering grudge and ill begetting Jesus deliberately for the purpose of making him pretend to fall on the "grenade" 30 years later?

Does the mangled soldier's sacrifice save other platoons and all platoons from any past and present and future grenade tosses?

And who threw the grenade and why? Which of course then necessitated the sacrifice?

If this sacrifice saves platoons from all future grenade tosses then it is a HUMAN SACRIFICE indeed.

And Jesus as can be seen from reading the New Tall tales, did not willingly take one for his friends... he fell to his knees crying tears of blood and groveling and begging YHWH to stop his "grenade tossing" and admitted that he was created for the purpose of becoming a human sacrifice to save all of humanity for past present and future "grenades". Not just his cadre of hobos and not just one time event.

Conclusion.... as evinced by reading the Tall Tales in the New Tall tales... it is not at all like...


Thermal said:
...taking one for the team voluntarily...
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And as admitted by Jesus and others throughout the New Tall Tales... it is definitively and irrefragably a human sacrifice... QED!!!



.
 
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Leumas said:
Jesus saw the "grenade" and could have grabbed it and lobbed back at the enemy thus saving himself and his friends and getting rid of the enemy all in one fell swoop?

But instead... he decided to go through the melodrama of falling on the "grenade" and pretending to take one for his friends... knowing jolly well that he will be fine and then go around bragging about it and asking his friends and all of humanity to kiss his feet for saving them or else he will imprison them and eternally torture them in his dungeon?

Moreover... where does this melodramatic soldier's tale hold any similarity to Original sin and the desire of YHWH to get rid of his festering grudge and ill begetting Jesus deliberately for the purpose of making him pretend to fall on the "grenade" 30 years later?

Does the mangled soldier's sacrifice save other platoons and all platoons from any past and present and future grenade tosses?

And who threw the grenade and why? Which of course then necessitated the sacrifice?

If this sacrifice saves platoons from all future grenade tosses then it is a HUMAN SACRIFICE indeed.

And Jesus as can be seen from reading the New Tall tales, did not willingly take one for his friends... he fell to his knees crying tears of blood and groveling and begging YHWH to stop his "grenade tossing" and admitted that he was created for the purpose of becoming a human sacrifice to save all of humanity for past present and future "grenades". Not just his cadre of hobos and not just one time event.

Conclusion.... as evinced by reading the Tall Tales in the New Tall tales... it is not at all like..


And as admitted by Jesus and others throughout the New Tall Tales... it is definitively and irrefragably a human sacrifice... QED!!!



.[/COLOR
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I don't understand. Could you elaborate?
 
Leumas said:
Jesus saw the "grenade" and could have grabbed it and lobbed back at the enemy thus saving himself and his friends and getting rid of the enemy all in one fell swoop?

But instead... he decided to go through the melodrama of falling on the "grenade" and pretending to take one for his friends... knowing jolly well that he will be fine
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That's one interpretation, but it doesn't explain this:-

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
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Let's pretend for a moment that this is what really happened (which is at least plausible). In his dying moments, Jesus realizes that his father is not going to save him. He has lost faith in God! Jesus had a moment of clarity and became an atheist just before he died! It wasn't just a little bump on the road to resurrection, this was it - the end of existence!

And everything after that was an invention. The empty tomb, the zombies raised from the dead simply by being close to the magical event, Jesus showing his extreme piercings to the disciples - all a lie created so they could keep the cult going after he was gone. And then he very conveniently 'left the country', to return soon for sure. I can't tell you when, but "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.". So where's that 2000 year old disciple who hasn't tasted death yet?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
In the "jump on the grenade" analogy, it has to be considered that said grenade was lobbed by God himself.
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Not just that... it has to also be meant to save all troops for all time from all grenades ever tossed by this god... present and future all over the world.

And not just that... the troops if they refuse to kiss Jesus' feet after he gets up from pretending to die on the grenade he himself will toss more grenades at them.
 
How few are those on the forum who can consider a parable or analogy without a stick rammed firmly up their asses.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
That's one interpretation, but it doesn't explain this:-

Let's pretend for a moment that this is what really happened (which is at least plausible). In his dying moments, Jesus realizes that his father is not going to save him. He has lost faith in God! Jesus had a moment of clarity and became an atheist just before he died! It wasn't just a little bump on the road to resurrection, this was it - the end of existence!

And everything after that was an invention. The empty tomb, the zombies raised from the dead simply by being close to the magical event, Jesus showing his extreme piercings to the disciples - all a lie created so they could keep the cult going after he was gone. And then he very conveniently 'left the country', to return soon for sure. I can't tell you when, but "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.". So where's that 2000 year old disciple who hasn't tasted death yet?
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Yup... this ignoble YHWH is a real dastard... he tricked poor Jesus and sent him an angel to wipe away his tears of blood while he was crying and sobbing for his deadbeat scum of a sky daddy to not let him have to "jump on the grenade" that YHWH is tossing and to assure him that all will be OK and all he has to do is just suffer for a few hours and pretend to die.

But what this scumbag trickster sky daddy do... he abandons Jesus and does not fulfill any of his promises to his poor ill begotten son... just like all scumbag abusive dastardly deadbeat sky daddies.


Roger Ramjets said:
...So where's that 2000 year old disciple who hasn't tasted death yet?
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He is hiding in that same cranny where Jesus is hiding along with his deadbeat grenade tossing absentee trickster sky daddy.
 
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Video discussing human sacrifice in Indo European religions - and the evolution of the ideas.



It does mention the motif of self-sacrifice in near-Eastern (i.e. Semitic) religions as well as in Indo European religions.
 
Leumas said:
He is hiding in that same cranny where Jesus is hiding along with his deadbeat grenade tossing absentee trickster sky daddy.
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This has been the theme of a few TV shows, including Supernatural - my favorite fantasy series!

Season 4 introduces Chuck Shurley as one of God's prophets portrayed by Rob Benedict. Later in season 11, it is revealed that Chuck is God masquerading under the guise of a human to allow angels and mankind free will. In season 15, it is revealed that Chuck is manipulating events in the lives of the Winchesters and their allies for his own perverse amusement and entertainment.
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jimbob said:
It does mention the motif of self-sacrifice in near-Eastern (i.e. Semitic) religions as well as in Indo European religions.
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Is the "self" a human?

So it is a HUMAN SACRIFICE...

And is it to a god or to a grenade lobbed at a troop in the middle of war?

Is it RITUALISTIC? Or did it happen just like I would throw myself in front of a truck to save my wife?

It is ... according to the video... to a god and ritualistic.

So it is a Human Sacrifice to a god.

Just like David did to the 7 grandsons of Saul.

And just like Joshua did to the entire family of Achan.

Just like YHWH did to his ill begotten son.

And lest you repeat the previous apologetics... read the following Mitzvah out of the 613.

  • Deuteronomy 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
 
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Roger Ramjets said:
This has been the theme of a few TV shows, including Supernatural - my favorite fantasy series!
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I never watched the show... my sister LOVES it ... and for mothers' day and birthdays I used to buy her the DVDs of the series.... I did not know it is still going... my sister died a while back... ah... you have just reminded me of her.
 
Leumas said:
Is the "self" a human?

So it is a HUMAN SACRIFICE...

And is it to a god or to a grenade lobbed at a troop in the middle of war?

Is it RITUALISTIC? Or did it happen just like I would throw myself in front of a truck to save my wife?

It is ... according to the video... to a god and ritualistic.

So it is a Human Sacrifice to a god.

Just like David did to the 7 grandsons of Saul.

And just like Joshua did to the entire family of Achan.

Just like YHWH did to his ill begotten son.

And lest you repeat the previous apologetics... read the following Mitzvah out of the 613.

  • Deuteronomy 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
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This thing.... again....

Is a human a "self"? That means it's a self-sacrifice.
See, I can play word games too.

Generally speaking, self-sacrifice is voluntary while human sacrifice is not. You could even put in "for the greater good" for a self-sacrifice.

Would someone ritualistically push you in front of a truck? Or did you purposely jump in front of the truck to save your wife?

Didn't watch the video, so no comment.

So this example (or lack thereof) (talking about saving your wife) is not a human sacrifice. It is a sacrifice that a human made.

Let's look at David and the 7 grandsons of Saul. 2nd Samuel 21 for those playing the home version. Link to online Bible here.

Basically God was ticked off at Saul and there was a famine. David asked God, what happened. God said King Saul killed some Gibeonites. David went to the Gibeonites and asked what can he do to fix this/get a blessing. The Gibeonites, not David, said give us 7 grandsons of Saul so we can kill them and "expose their bodies exposed before the Lord at Gibeah of Saul—the Lord’s chosen one." The Gibeonites killed the grandsons. The linked version does not say sacrificed or human sacrificed. I interpret the "exposed their bodies on a hill before the Lord" in verse 9 to be, "Hey God, we killed them. We're good!"

For Achen, there's no human sacrifice mentioned. Link to Joshua 7 here. Basically, some guy stole items that belonged to God. (I assume that the items were part of a tithe.) Because Achen stole the items, the Israelites lost a battle. All of Israel stoned Achen, his family, and every living thing Achen owned, and then burned everything. Again, no sacrifice. Just punishment being handed out.

What's your spin on Deuteronomy 5:9?
"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,". One could say that there is a set of laws for crimes against God and another for crimes against people.
 
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