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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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Samson said:
I have not met a woman that would embrace the obligation to define as cis woman on a document.
In fairness, if I put it to them, they would have no idea what I was talking about. The common citizenry old women are unsophisticated of course.
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FTFY

I think you're suffering from being an old fart out of touch with youth.

My daughter, who's 23, and all her friends of that age, and all my son's (20) female friends have no problem with being cis-women.

I'm sure some younger chicks object, but I think they're probably a minority.

I think it's bull myself, but I know lots of young chicks are entirely happy to make the distinction.
 
Cis prefix is a US or first world issue. In Mexico we still refer to men as men, women as women and other options as what they are. Not just my community, everywhere I have been here.
Most of the time when referring to non standard choices it's not an insult nor derogatory term.

Why do you all need to complicate it so much?
 
TurkeysGhost said:
A sloppy overstatement on my part. I should say that there's no evidence that trans inclusion has changed that. The evidence of the harms of trans exclusion is overwhelming and undeniable.

Given the recent example of the bathroom panic that turned out to be nothing more than the frothy imagination of bigots, I assume the assertion of a trans menace in shelters is likewise entirely imagined. Feel free to change that assumption with evidence.
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But you've already provided the evidence - Remember the trans-fact you showed us about how unisex toilets didn't lead to increases in sexual assault? Remember how posters here uncovered the cis-truth of the matter by looking at the actual data and found out it DID lead to increases in sexual assault? Remember that you never mentioned that study again?
 
Manger Douse said:
But you've already provided the evidence - Remember the trans-fact you showed us about how unisex toilets didn't lead to increases in sexual assault? Remember how posters here uncovered the cis-truth of the matter by looking at the actual data and found out it DID lead to increases in sexual assault? Remember that you never mentioned that study again?
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No, I don't remember any of this. Somehow I doubt your characterization.
 
How Women's Swimming Got So Transphobic. That's the title of an article in the Nation. It's mostly silly, repeating some of the usual canards:

(As I have written previously, there is no real evidence that trans athletes have an inherent advantage over their cisgender counterparts.)
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And some that I confess are new to me:

Transphobia is often closely linked to white supremacy, as gender non-conformity threatens norms regarding white, Western gender ideals, and swimming’s history is decidedly anti-Black.
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But there is one interesting tidbit; the writer points out that a lot of the boomer female swimmers remember competing against the testosterone-fueled East German women, who won 11 of 13 possible gold medals in swimming at the 1976 Olympics.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
No, I don't remember any of this. Somehow I doubt your characterization.
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I don't doubt that but since you are the one wanting to make changes to bathrooms, changing rooms and rape crisis centres it really is up to you to show what harm, if any, results from this. You keep bragging how these changes are already happing and there's nothing us TERFs can do about it but do you have that data?
 
A phobia is an irrational fear by definition.

But there's nothing irrational about the fear that TRAs will colonize women's sports and women's prisons.

There's nothing irrational about the fear that AGPs will exploit trans accommodations in public policy to indulge in sexual harassment and abuse of women.

These things are already happening, and they're happening by design. Your response isn't transphobic, it's trans-critical.
 
theprestige said:
As always, I plead for a TRA to describe what human right they're talking about.
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I don't expect you'll get an answer to this, but if I wanted to steelperson their position it would be something like this: Everyone has a gender identity, and everyone has a right to be treated in accordance therewith.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
I am merely pointing out that an anecdote about danger in a place generally known for danger is not really proving much about trans people.

Shelters are the dumping grounds for people in the ragged edges of society, including lots of people with inclinations to violence or drug addiction or severe mental illness or whatever.

Cherry picking out anecdotes when the aggressors are you preferred undesirable is not a useful exercise unless you're motivated by prejudice.
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You're the one taking the position that female homeless people should not have access to female-only shelters, and that they should be forced to share intimate spaces with males... despite knowing full well that this will increase the danger that those females face.
 
The Atheist said:
They have already.

Let me quickly count how many ***** I give...

Nah, still zero.

That's my point - they're not women, they'll never be women, and the sooner they accept that, the better we will all be.

My solution remains the one I've mentioned many times - the "third gender" option. I don't see what they lose by it.
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Realistically, they lose nothing. The problem is that's not what they want. Despite all the calls for "equal rights" and safety... those are not the goal of the activists.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
A sloppy overstatement on my part. I should say that there's no evidence that trans inclusion has changed that. The evidence of the harms of trans exclusion is overwhelming and undeniable.

Given the recent example of the bathroom panic that turned out to be nothing more than the frothy imagination of bigots, I assume the assertion of a trans menace in shelters is likewise entirely imagined. Feel free to change that assumption with evidence.
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So... it's all based on what you assume must be true in order to support your desired end.

Great logic.
 
Brainster said:
Let's not debate the aspects of trans inclusion where my side has a weak case, in other words.
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It's even weirder than that. Nearly all justifications for separate women's leagues, record books, and athletic scholarships are rooted in "ideas of advantage or fairness." Frankie wants her interlocutors to surrender all of their arguments because subjective sense of self matters more than sexed bodies, even when we are discussing the capabilities of bodies in motion.
 
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