Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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d4m10n said:
Seems pretty obvious that they meant Ms. Keen-Minshull and her lot, but thankfully no one had the chance to act out their righteous violent fantasies that day.
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Plenty of violence.
5 ft Kelly Jane thought she was a goner. The police stood a long way distant and derelicted their duties. It was a disgraceful day in this dismal country, young New Zealander of the year, anointed later, committed an act of violence.
Shaneel Lal.
 
Okay, I should be more specific.

The violent mob didn't get the chance to stomp the scheduled speakers underfoot, fulfilling their combat boot fantasies in a classic display of progressive tolerance.
 
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This is behind a paywall but the quote is presumably designed to show Kellie Jane in the most unspeakable light. The photo certainly shows New Zealand in such a fashion.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/polit...ing-up-the-volume/QYZTUOBBL5HTZLK3HU2273M6J4/

"""In one interview, Keen-Minshull says: “Being born in the wrong body is such a ridiculous concept.” In another, it is a “fetish”. In another, she says: “I don’t think any parent that enables their child to transition, or any adult or parent who encourages any other children to transition, I don’t think they’re fit to be parents.”

It’s a sign of how polarised the debate is that Keen-Minshull also refers to Nazi Germany.

“If we look in history it doesn’t take that much to convince a population of something preposterous or evil,” she said during an interview.I’m not saying this is like Nazi Germany but perfectly reasonable people became tyrannical, evil humans that participated in something that is so vile. I don’t think it’s beyond the wit to look at history and think, ‘we’ve always been able to do this’.”

I should add:
But trans radical activists are honorable men.
 
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Another way the subject is managed by New Zealand media is to continually paint access to toilets as her sole preoccupation. Under this umbrella though is Lia Thomas trouncing females in a swimming race then stripping naked, fully intact, in their changing room afterwards. That will sit on a truth continuum no doubt, but is in fact one of her staple gripes. Some may think it a reasonable gripe.
 
Poll result out from the WaPo shows just how unpopular the positions are that the trans lobby has staked out. On transwomen competing against females, 62% oppose it at the youth level 66% at the high school level and 65% at the professional level.

Some other results:

Most Americans don’t believe it’s even possible to be a gender that differs from that assigned at birth. A 57 percent majority of adults said a person’s gender is determined from the start, with 43 percent saying it can differ.
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And on puberty blockers and the like?

The Post-KFF poll found significant opposition to gender-affirming medical care for children and teens. Nearly 7 in 10 adults said they oppose allowing children ages 10 to 14 access to medication that stops the body from going through puberty, and nearly 6 in 10 oppose giving 15- to 17-year-olds access to hormone treatments.
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Needless to say, the Post is dismayed to report this; indeed the article's lead remarks how this is political jet fuel to the Republicans.
 
A small sample but interesting. Since far more young people than older sample as trans it is an arguable proposition this is social contagion.
Arguable note.

Reading the comments, I came to:

Gender dysphoria isn't a "condition" at all. it's just a way of being. it shouldn't require hacking up healthy bodies and turning people into lifelong medical patients.

I wonder if this brief foray into armchair psychology might not turn out to be definitive.
 
Brainster said:
Needless to say, the Post is dismayed to report this; indeed the article's lead remarks how this is political jet fuel to the Republicans.
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Generally speaking the right wing is reactive rather than proactive, but it's difficult to think of any policy on which the (intersectional) left is more out of step with mainstream voters than the ones we discuss in this thread.
 
According to 'Scientific American' puberty blockers are harmless and their use does nothing but good.....


Adolescence can be a uniquely distressing time for young transgender people, who often experience gender dysphoria: a discrepancy between the sex they were assigned at birth and the gender that matches who they are. During this period, hormone production increases, leading to secondary sexual characteristics such as facial hair and breasts. The irreversible, slow-motion physiological changes can be emotionally and mentally disturbing, leading to depression, social withdrawal, self-harm and a risk of suicide. Hormonal medications called gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists (GnRHas), often referred to as puberty blockers, temporarily halt the production of sex hormones testosterone, estrogen and progesterone with minimal side effects. They can pause puberty and buy transgender children and their caregivers time to consider their options.
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-are-puberty-blockers-and-how-do-they-work/


Of course that is all based on the belief that humans are born physically







androgynous and need surgery to become male or female.
 
Brainster said:
I think the right wing (hate groups and otherwise) do share some of the same views as you do, and for largely the same reasons. I don't see a lot of conservatives in the US who support putting biological men in women's prisons, or who think it's just fine if boys can compete for girl's sporting teams and win scholarships and prizes meant for females. The unfairness is transparent to us, and unlike the left we aren't really interested in ranking groups by their degree of victimhood.
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I don't think they share the same reasons and the same motivations that left-leaning females have.

For example, a large and persistent objection that females have is that this gender ideology actually reinforces regressive and sexist stereotypes - it reinforces the notion that females are supposed to be submissive, docile, dress in clothing that males like to see them in, and to be objects for male pleasure.

A male who likes dresses and make-up is no less of a male than one who does not, just as a female who likes dresses and make-up is no more of a female than one who does not. All people should be free to wear whatever clothing they feel most comfortable in, we should all fee empowered to expression (provided it's not illegal or exploitative). That's NOT a view that the right wing holds - they wish to RETAIN those sex-based roles and expected behaviors.

For the most part, a lot of the right wing view is that it is unnatural for males to act like females. For left leaning females, the view is that how we act should not be tied to our sex at all, there's nothing natural about it in the first place. But that does not actually negate the material reality of sex.
 
The Atheist said:
Clearly unacceptable and outrageously wrong.

You do need to take into account posters at a rally aren't going to be extreme, because the people carrying them would get arrested.
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Somehow this doesn't seem to be how it works when the people at the rally are on the trans activist side. Signs of "Punch a Terf" and "Decaptiate TERFs" and similar such sentiments are regularly seen in that group - and are both tolerated and lauded.

The Atheist said:
Who will be dealt with by the justice system, just like every other violent criminal.
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Hasn't so far. In fact, over the last several years, there have been extremely few cases of justice being served when the violent actor is a transgender identified male and the victim is female.

To be fair... very little justice is served when the perpetrator is male and the victim is female. Conviction rates for rapes, sexual assaults, sexual harassment, and domestic violence are abysmal. And that in countries where females are supposed to have rights.
 
The Atheist said:
Clearly not actionable unless you want to arrest the boots. If you said "I will stomp on ......" someone might get interested.
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:confused: I would really like to understand your rationale here.

On the one hand is a sign questioning whether targeting children - specifically children - with drag culture is actually a good thing, and you view that as "unacceptable and outrageously wrong".

On the other hand is a sign implying direct violence against females... and you seem to think that's not a problem.

What makes one of those beyond the pale and the other nothing more than a laugh to you?
 
Samson said:
This is behind a paywall but the quote is presumably designed to show Kellie Jane in the most unspeakable light. The photo certainly shows New Zealand in such a fashion.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/polit...ing-up-the-volume/QYZTUOBBL5HTZLK3HU2273M6J4/

"""In one interview, Keen-Minshull says: “Being born in the wrong body is such a ridiculous concept.” In another, it is a “fetish”. In another, she says: “I don’t think any parent that enables their child to transition, or any adult or parent who encourages any other children to transition, I don’t think they’re fit to be parents.”

It’s a sign of how polarised the debate is that Keen-Minshull also refers to Nazi Germany.

“If we look in history it doesn’t take that much to convince a population of something preposterous or evil,” she said during an interview.I’m not saying this is like Nazi Germany but perfectly reasonable people became tyrannical, evil humans that participated in something that is so vile. I don’t think it’s beyond the wit to look at history and think, ‘we’ve always been able to do this’.”

I should add:
But trans radical activists are honorable men.
Click to expand...

"Born in the wrong body" IS a ridiculous concept. It implies that we each have a "gendered soul" that some magical deity is inserting into our bodies during gestation. Which is absurd. We are all born into our own body, it's the only body we have. We are our bodies - they cannot be the wrong bodies.

And for SOME cases of self-proclaimed transwomen, it IS a fetish. Some of them are quite open about it. Some of them have written books about how much of a fetish it is. For example... Andrea Long Chu. In fact, one of the predominant reasons for the level of medical gatekeeping in the past was specifically to weed out the cases of fetishism from the cases of self-perception errors. Autogynephilia remains a diagnosis in DSM-5 as a specific category under transvestic fetishism. It's a sexual paraphilia. Not all transgender identified males are autogynephiles, but a not-insignificant number of self-declared transwomen are.

And while I may not go quite as far as KJK, I also think that puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgical interventions on children who have not completed puberty are incredibly horrible ideas, and at present are effectively negligent disregard for the wellbeing of the child. In an ideal world, with solid evidence-based criteria and a significant amount of evaluation beforehand, those would be available to an extreme few cases of severely dysphoric minors in very rare situations. But right now? Right now it's tantamount to child abuse, with ramifications far beyond those of repressed memories and satanic ritual child abuse.
 
Joanna Cherry KC, the SNP MP, was booked to appear at a talk at a club in Edinburgh called The Stand. The staff at the Stand decided that because of Cherry's "anti-trans" views, they weren't prepared to work on the night she was booked to appear, so the club then cancelled her appearance.

Now Cherry is demanding an apology, as well as an admission that the cancellation was wrong and illegal and a restoration of the event.

The letter her lawyers have written to The Stand is here:

https://joannacherry.scot/images/Letter to the Stand - 8 May 2023.pdf

Interestingly, The Stand is owned by another SNP MP, which must be a bit awkward.

I'll be interested to see their response.
 
Matthew Best said:
Joanna Cherry KC, the SNP MP, was booked to appear at a talk at a club in Edinburgh called The Stand. The staff at the Stand decided that because of Cherry's "anti-trans" views, they weren't prepared to work on the night she was booked to appear, so the club then cancelled her appearance.

Now Cherry is demanding an apology, as well as an admission that the cancellation was wrong and illegal and a restoration of the event.

The letter her lawyers have written to The Stand is here:

https://joannacherry.scot/images/Letter to the Stand - 8 May 2023.pdf

Interestingly, The Stand is owned by another SNP MP, which must be a bit awkward.

I'll be interested to see their response.
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Hopefully there is one you can post here for our edification.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Well, you know, other than the male who broke an older female's jaw and tried to beat the hell out of them.
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Sorry I meant to say righteous violent boot-stomping fantasies. It's fascinating that we've gotten to the point that people consider it *checks notes* "intersectional feminism" for a male activist to deck an old lady who wanted to preserve certain concessions to the female sex.
 
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