The DeSantis gambit

[ponderingturtle]

Hmm, haven't heard about that one, you have a link?

There is of course the copyright BS they've pulled in the past.

Of course, neither of those things have anything whatsoever to do with why DeSantis is trying to punish Disney. Its possible they are on the right side in this case, and on the wrong side in others. And perhaps should face legal consequences.

https://www.newsweek.com/star-wars-writer-says-disney-refusing-pay-royalties-because-it-bought-rights-not-liabilities-1549189

 

[lobosrul5]

https://www.newsweek.com/star-wars-writer-says-disney-refusing-pay-royalties-because-it-bought-rights-not-liabilities-1549189

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dis...MustPay task force has,will be paid by Disney.

Looks like they did, in the end, pay him. And others.

But again, we could be talking about Phillip-Morris here, and Florida would still be in the wrong... which wouldn't in anyway absolve Phillip-Morris of all the terrible **** they've done in the past.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

This is an epically important case. If Disney were to lose, that means that private corporations can be retaliated against for exercising free speech. And that is just a stone throw away from being retaliated against for NOT saying the right thing. "Corporation X did not endorse me in my campaign to become Governor, and I vow I will do everything I can to run them into the ground after I'm elected"... would be legal???

The Roberts volksgerichtshof would have to invalidate its own Hobby Lobby and Citizens United rulings.

 

[JoeMorgue]

We keep saying "There's no way conservatives could do that because it would invalidate something else that they are doing" and we keep forgetting you can absolutely do that if you don't mind being a massive hypocrite with no shame.

The Republicans will burn Disney to the ground and in the next breath make Hobby Lobby the new Supreme Court and it will not bother them at all.

 

[Ziggurat]

The Republicans will burn Disney to the ground and in the next breath make Hobby Lobby the new Supreme Court and it will not bother them at all.

Making Disney play by the same rules every other corporation in Florida has to play by hardly constitutes burning them to the ground. It's amazing how far leftists will contort themselves in defense of special privileges for big corporations in order to own conservatives.

 

[Ziggurat]

This is an epically important case. If Disney were to lose, that means that private corporations can be retaliated against for exercising free speech.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for the courts to decide that treating Disney like every other corporation does not infringe its free speech rights. Its special privileges were granted arbitrarily, seems fair to me that they can be revoked arbitrarily as well. They are at no disadvantage compared to anyone else, including their direct competitors in the theme park space.

 

[lobosrul5]

I don't think it would be unreasonable for the courts to decide that treating Disney like every other corporation does not infringe its free speech rights. Its special privileges were granted arbitrarily, seems fair to me that they can be revoked arbitrarily as well. They are at no disadvantage compared to anyone else, including their direct competitors in the theme park space.

I am all for Disney having their special privileges revoked. IF it wasn't being done as retaliation for political speech that the governor of Florida disagrees with. DeSantis hasn't even tried to hide this fact. Then theres the issue of Florida essentially writing Bills of Attainder. Their newest is written in such a way that it doesn't name Disney or Reedy Creek, but so that it only applies to Reedy Creek* and none of the other 1,938 special districts in Florida.


Also, they were not granted control of a special district arbitrarily. They were granted it in exchange for a huge influx of capital to improve what was at the time, virtually worthless swampland.

Then there's the "little" issue of who is going to be on the hook for Reedy Creek issued bonds. Disney has actually operated Reedy Creek at a loss, they've taken profit out of Disney corp to pay for Reedy Creek debt. I don't see how a government can take away control of something, yet expect a private entity to keep making debt payments on it.

*language like this bill applies only to special districts of which touch exactly 2 counties.

 

[wareyin]

Making Disney play by the same rules every other corporation in Florida has to play by hardly constitutes burning them to the ground. It's amazing how far leftists will contort themselves in defense of special privileges for big corporations in order to own conservatives.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for the courts to decide that treating Disney like every other corporation does not infringe its free speech rights. Its special privileges were granted arbitrarily, seems fair to me that they can be revoked arbitrarily as well. They are at no disadvantage compared to anyone else, including their direct competitors in the theme park space.

You're leaning awfully hard into the "treating Disney like every other corporation" talking point, as though writing a law specifically to single out Disney isn't what happened. FFS, DeSantis openly bragged that this was singling out Disney for their "woke" values.

You know that, we know that, and we know that you know this is not and never was about "treating Disney like every other corporation".

 

[Ziggurat]

You're leaning awfully hard into the "treating Disney like every other corporation" talking point, as though writing a law specifically to single out Disney isn't what happened.

Disney was the only corporation that had those special privileges, removing them still only treats Disney like everyone else.

But keep stanning for special tax exemptions for giant corporations, it's a great look for a leftist.

 

[JoeMorgue]

But keep stanning for special tax exemptions for giant corporations, it's a great look for a leftist.

That's adorable. One of the best "LOOKIT MY DOUBLE STANDARDS! DARE YOU TO NOTICE THEM!" routines in a while.

Yes Zigg, the biggest Republican mouthpiece on this site, I'm sure you're totally bothered by hand outs for corporations... when it's not liberals doing it.

Your standards can serve as a random number generator.

 

[Ziggurat]

I am all for Disney having their special privileges revoked. IF it wasn't being done as retaliation for political speech that the governor of Florida disagrees with.

Yeah, I don't buy that logic. If it's the right thing to do, I don't give a **** about the motive. If it's the wrong thing to do, then a good motive doesn't make it the right thing to do.

You agree that it's the right thing to do. That's basically the end of it, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, they were not granted control of a special district arbitrarily. They were granted it in exchange for a huge influx of capital to improve what was at the time, virtually worthless swampland.

And Disney already benefitted plenty from that. They don't need to keep benefiting in perpetuity. Plus, they were granted it not simply in exchange for capital, but also to build a city. They never built that city. So they never actually fulfilled the purpose for which it was intended.

Then there's the "little" issue of who is going to be on the hook for Reedy Creek issued bonds.

No, there isn't. Disney is still on the hook, nobody else. Nothing changed. RCID wasn't dissolved, it was transformed into the CFTOD. The CFTOD is still responsible for those bonds, and just as before it pays them off using taxes levied against property owners in the district, ie, Disney. Early reporting to the contrary was based on the idea that RCID would simply disappear, but that's not what happened. This isn't an issue, which is why you aren't still seeing news stories about it.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Disney was the only corporation that had those special privileges, removing them still only treats Disney like everyone else.

But keep stanning for special tax exemptions for giant corporations, it's a great look for a leftist.

plenty of other entities have a similar deal in Florida.
But those are pro-Santis and therefore safe from retaliation.

like The villages.

 

[lobosrul5]

Yeah, I don't buy that logic. If it's the right thing to do, I don't give a **** about the motive. If it's the wrong thing to do, then a good motive doesn't make it the right thing to do.

You agree that it's the right thing to do. That's basically the end of it, as far as I'm concerned.

You misunderstood me, and that's my fault. If its in the best interests for the people of Florida to dissolve Reedy Creek then that's perfectly fine. But, DeSantis has made it perfectly, CRYSTALLY clear, that its in retribution for their stance against the "Dont Say Gay Bill".

And Disney already benefitted plenty from that. They don't need to keep benefiting in perpetuity. Plus, they were granted it not simply in exchange for capital, but also to build a city. They never built that city. So they never actually fulfilled the purpose for which it was intended.

Where are you getting this from? I'm seeing that Walt Disney (the person) originally envisioned a city there, but they were never mandated to build one by Florida as a clause for RCID.

No, there isn't. Disney is still on the hook, nobody else. Nothing changed. RCID wasn't dissolved, it was transformed into the CFTOD. The CFTOD is still responsible for those bonds, and just as before it pays them off using taxes levied against property owners in the district, ie, Disney. Early reporting to the contrary was based on the idea that RCID would simply disappear, but that's not what happened. This isn't an issue, which is why you aren't still seeing news stories about it.

So what you are saying is, Disney is still on the hook for things like road maintenance, the fire dept, security etc, building codes just like before, but now they have no say on how those things operate???

ETA: and jesus h effing christ. Apparently all 5 members of the new board are contributors to DeSantis. This is just a kickback scheme for ***** sake!

 

[lobosrul5]

plenty of other entities have a similar deal in Florida.
But those are pro-Santis and therefore safe from retaliation.

like The villages.

Yes... they are writing bills as if they were Bills of Attainder (something unconstitutional), by using very specific language to ONLY apply it one special district without actually naming Disney or Reedy Creek.

 

[Ziggurat]

plenty of other entities have a similar deal in Florida.
But those are pro-Santis and therefore safe from retaliation.

like The villages.

No, they don't have similar deals. There are plenty of special districts in Florida (and they will still have a special district), but RCID was unique among special districts. Nobody else had Disney's deal.

 

[wareyin]

Disney was the only corporation that had those special privileges, removing them still only treats Disney like everyone else.

This nonsense again? Are you simply ignoring it every time someone gives you another example of a corporation that had and still has those "special" privileges?

But keep stanning for special tax exemptions for giant corporations, it's a great look for a leftist.

No one is stanning for special tax exemptions. But also no one is falling for your claims that this was the right thing to do or that you don't care about the motive. You've been echoing DeSantis's anti-diversity claims with regard to Disney enough that we know you care about and even agree with the motive. And because you agree with the motive, you've latched onto transparently false "treating everyone the same" claims.

 

[wareyin]

No, they don't have similar deals. There are plenty of special districts in Florida (and they will still have a special district), but RCID was unique among special districts. Nobody else had Disney's deal.

Yes, the distinctive characteristics the bill mentioned were...uh, the date that Disney's deal was agreed on. Yep, that sure makes it different!

 

[lobosrul5]

No one is stanning for special tax exemptions. But also no one is falling for your claims that this was the right thing to do or that you don't care about the motive. You've been echoing DeSantis's anti-diversity claims with regard to Disney enough that we know you care about and even agree with the motive. And because you agree with the motive, you've latched onto transparently false "treating everyone the same" claims.

What were those exactly? The Reedy Creek bonds were federally tax free because they were treated as muni bonds. But they could only issue them for purposes that were like a municipality. Disney Corp bonds are still taxable. Florida does not have a state income tax either way. They still apparently had to pay county property tax, and VAT/GRT.

 

[Ziggurat]

You misunderstood me, and that's my fault. If its in the best interests for the people of Florida to dissolve Reedy Creek then that's perfectly fine.

I believe it is. Leftists used to think so too.

But, DeSantis has made it perfectly, CRYSTALLY clear, that its in retribution for their stance against the "Dont Say Gay Bill".

Again, I don't care about his motives.

Where are you getting this from? I'm seeing that Walt Disney (the person) originally envisioned a city there, but they were never mandated to build one by Florida as a clause for RCID.

I never said they were contractually obligated to. But that was a big part of the motive for creating RCID. Disney did nothing illegal by not building the city, but if you want to talk about some sort of moral or ethical obligation on the part of the state to give back to Disney in exchange for what Disney provided to the state, I think that bears consideration too. But again, Disney has already benefitted plenty from RCID. They more than got a fair return on investment. I see no reason to continue giving them special tax advantages forever.

So what you are saying is, Disney is still on the hook for things like road maintenance, the fire dept, security etc, building codes just like before, but now they have no say on how those things operate???

Oh, I suspect they'll still have some pull with the board.

ETA: and jesus h effing christ. Apparently all 5 members of the new board are contributors to DeSantis. This is just a kickback scheme for ***** sake!

Is this the first time you've noticed political appointments often go to donors? You'd have to get rid of probably half the US ambassadors if that's something unconscionable. And yeah, it might be better if that sort of thing never happened. But if it's an issue for you, this is hardly the first or the worst of it.

And it's kind of a ****** kickback scheme, considering board members don't even pull in a salary. Did you know that? Yup, the law specifies that they can't receive any compensation except travel and per diem, rates of which are determined by Florida law (ie, standardized rates). That's it. Not really a lucrative gig.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

No, they don't have similar deals. There are plenty of special districts in Florida (and they will still have a special district), but RCID was unique among special districts. Nobody else had Disney's deal.

Each district is different, so that means nothing.
And no other entity brings as much revenue to Florida as Disney, so getting a unique deal is a no-brainer int he interest of Florida.
No one forced Florida to give Disney the privileges.


Don't you think that the deal The Villages have gives them an unfair advantage over over retirement communities that don't got their own Special District?