Cont: Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

Lukraak_Sisser said:
Reincarnation is a hoax thought up by the rich and powerful to keep the poor in their place.
Be a good little peasant now and never ask for any rights and *next* life you'll be better off, and by the way you must have been a bad person last life because otherwise your parents would have been rich like mine.
The same fake argument used by kings and nobility in Europe, just different words.
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I do not believe the Christian theology that when we die we are judged and either go to heaven or hell for eternity. To me such an idea has injustice built into it. For example baby's might look like Churchill but they are a lifetime away from being such a man. Christians may say that babies automatically go to heaven. But they could not possibly have any sense of self worth when they have had no experience and are untried and untested. They would spend eternity being second rate beings. I believe we live hundreds and even thousands of lives on this and other planets. In the end our souls become enlightened and enter a state of grace in which they need no more earthly
experience, so they go on evolving as immortal spirits in higher realms.
 
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Myriad said:
Overall, Scorpion's spiritual beliefs are pretty much the core curriculum of present day occultism.
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Fair enough. What I mean by his cafeteria approach is that he picks and chooses from several different authors to impose the idea of kharma angels and a supreme being that uses the occultism framework, but results in a minestrone of moral agency and responsibility that he has so far failed to rectify.

So I don't think it's fair to bludgeon Scorpion with the murdered baby, however historically real the event was (unless perhaps there's some evidence that the murderers themselves were motivated by some desire to enact karmic punishments).
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Real or hypothetical, these exercises are essential to understanding claims of extrinsic moral agency and responsibility. We go through the same exercises with the Muslims in the religion section, who try to thread the needle between predestination and moral accountability. If occultism has an answer, great. If dharmic spiritualism has an answer, great. But Scorpion's homegrown religion seems to be an incompatible admixture of stuff he likes from a variety of incompatible sources.
 
Scorpion said:
So, the spirit world did not help me win the money to get my first internet ready computer.
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No. Whatever subjective experience led you to believe that was misperceived, misinterpreted or misremembered. Possibly all three.

The same goes for all the other experiences which you are interpreting as evidence for your beliefs. In some cases it's fairly easy to guess what actually happened, in others we'll never know, but none of them support the conclusions you are drawing from them.
 
Scorpion said:
So, the spirit world did not help me win the money to get my first internet ready computer.
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We've been over the alternate explanations for all your anecdotes many times. You say you're writing for the benefit of new people, but as you can see there are no new people in this debate. It's the same people you've already told all your stories to, and the same people giving you the same reasons for not believing your explanations. Please take it as read that we do not accept your explanations for what you say happened you to and that we have told you why.

In any case I have always been able to feel a presence...
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Be that as it may, none of those claims are evidence.

Of course you will just assume I am a diagnosed schizophrenic...
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That is not an assumption. That is a statement you've made and asked us to accept as fact.

...so what else should I expect.
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Schizophrenia explains all the claims you've made. There is no need to search for supernatural explanations when natural ones are both sufficient and supported by evidence.

Well the days I listened to psychiatrists humouring me when I tried to tell them these things are long gone. I have lived with it too long, and had too many experiences not to believe in myself.
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Your account of your experiences with psychologists and law enforcement are typical of other schizophrenics I've known. If you choose not to be treated for your mental illness, that's your business. But if that illness better explains your claimed experiences than your subjective belief in an unevidenced supernatural, then you should expect that skeptics will properly favor that explanation. Coming onto a skeptics forum to complain that skeptics are being correctly skeptical is just annoying.
 
Scorpion said:
You look at things in the worst possible way.
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I only look at what you claim - your claim is that a three year old girl deserves to be kidnapped, raped and beheaded because of something the spirit did before or so the spirit learns something. That knowledge is not even given to the 3 year old girl who must have suffered terribly.


Scorpion said:
You cannot see the big picture which is that we incarnate hundreds and even thousands of times, on this and other planets. We are progressing through countless experiences in many lives. We progress and spiritually evolve to higher and higher states of being over countless incarnations. Some lives will be cut short by injustices or by accidents. But each soul that suffers such things unjustly will be compensated in future incarnations.
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I can see the big picture, however the big picture you are looking at is composed of the pictures of a three year old girl being taken from her mother, raped by multiple men and being beheaded deserving that treatment. That lies at the heart of your beliefs, and I know you don't like that as you have said before you try not to think about it. Sorry if your own beliefs make you uncomfortable, but at least own them instead of trying to ignore them.

Do you think the mother of that three year old will be comforted by knowing that her child deserved the horror of her last hours of life?

Why are you still upset about the suffering others have inflicted on you - surely you should simply shrug your shoulders and say "well I deserved it or my spirit needs to learn something".

Your beliefs lead to the inescapable conclusion that we shouldn't try to stop suffering on this planet, that suffering has a purpose and we should simply put up with it.

My universe may not care whether anyone lives or dies but it isn't a universe where a 3 year old deserves to be kidnapped, raped multiple times and beheaded.
 
Pixel42 said:
No. Whatever subjective experience led you to believe that was misperceived, misinterpreted or misremembered. Possibly all three.
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You are excluding the other possibility, that I am right. So much for your open mind.
 
Scorpion said:
You are excluding the other possibility, that I am right. So much for your open mind.
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No.

If there are two Hypotheses, A and B, which purport to explain the same occurrence, and there is far more evidence in favor of Hypothesis A than there is for Hypothesis B, then we favor A over B. That doesn't mean we have excluded the possibility. We have rejected it after a fair review.

You seem to think open-mindedness means accepting the hypothesis without testing it. That's not being open minded; that's just being gullible.
 
To compound on the interesting point Darat made, you seem to not believe your own belief system.

In your belief system everything everyone does at all the time is just to learn things based upon their previous lives.
So those people treating you unfairly? You needed that as a lesson because of your previous lives. You should be thanking them for teaching you these lessons.

All the Muslims you seem to fear so much? They *need* to be muslim to learn something. So you should embrace them and thank them for the lessons they teach you at the same time.

Yet you seem to actively want to resist all those important lessons in your life, even though *you* are the one claiming it is needful to learn them.
 
The irony of Scorpion attempting to chastise people for being closed minded is hilarious. It's even more so when it's obvious to everyone else that his interlocutors aren't even being closed minded.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
The irony of Scorpion attempting to chastise people for being closed minded is hilarious. It's even more so when it's obvious to everyone else that his interlocutors aren't even being closed minded.
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Scorpion is so close-minded, he cannot even accept the possibility that he might be wrong.
 
arthwollipot said:
Scorpion is so close-minded, he cannot even accept the possibility that he might be wrong.
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What are you on about? Why do you think I let people treat me in a mental hospital in 1969. I spent years filled with self doubt, and let people convince me I was insane. But I am too long in the tooth to buy their narrow minded vison of life any longer.

I'm an artist, and I don't look back. I can paint the sun into the night time and paint the daytime black.

Acknowledgement to Bob Dylan
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
To compound on the interesting point Darat made, you seem to not believe your own belief system.

In your belief system everything everyone does at all the time is just to learn things based upon their previous lives.
So those people treating you unfairly? You needed that as a lesson because of your previous lives. You should be thanking them for teaching you these lessons.

All the Muslims you seem to fear so much? They *need* to be muslim to learn something. So you should embrace them and thank them for the lessons they teach you at the same time.

Yet you seem to actively want to resist all those important lessons in your life, even though *you* are the one claiming it is needful to learn them.
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Never mind embracing Muslims. I spend some of my time on twitter trying to liberate them. They clearly follow a lying , false prophet who taught them to fear God, in order to enslave their minds and fight his battles for him.
 
JayUtah said:
No.

If there are two Hypotheses, A and B, which purport to explain the same occurrence, and there is far more evidence in favor of Hypothesis A than there is for Hypothesis B, then we favor A over B. That doesn't mean we have excluded the possibility. We have rejected it after a fair review.

You seem to think open-mindedness means accepting the hypothesis without testing it. That's not being open minded; that's just being gullible.
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That is not what Pixel42 said. She does not include hypotheses B at all in the equation.
 
Scorpion said:
That is not what Pixel42 said. She does not include hypotheses B at all in the equation.
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What "equation?" She stated the conclusion we've all drawn regarding your claims, after carefully considering and debating your hypothesis many times over several years. You're presenting us with nothing new, and we've thoroughly examined your claims.
 
Scorpion said:
What are you on about? Why do you think I let people treat me in a mental hospital in 1969. I spent years filled with self doubt, and let people convince me I was insane. But I am too long in the tooth to buy their narrow minded vison of life any longer.
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I'm on about your absolute refusal to even consider the possibility that you might be wrong - that there might be alternative explanations for what you have experienced.

That is a textbook example of being closed-minded.
 
JayUtah said:
What "equation?" She stated the conclusion we've all drawn regarding your claims, after carefully considering and debating your hypothesis many times over several years. You're presenting us with nothing new, and we've thoroughly examined your claims.
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Your equation, post 527 where you say there are options A and B. Pixel42 gave no option B.
 
arthwollipot said:
I'm on about your absolute refusal to even consider the possibility that you might be wrong - that there might be alternative explanations for what you have experienced.

That is a textbook example of being closed-minded.
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Can you read or not? Didn't I just say I let people convince me I was I insane for years ?
 
arthwollipot said:
And what if they were right?
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What if they were wrong? I need no help, and would not waste my time asking a psychiatrist if I did. I would go to a spiritualist church for healing where I would get real help from people who know I am not crazy for believing in my own immortal spirit.
 
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