Cont: Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

[Mojo]

I said I would read books critical of Targ's books. But I was presented with a long list and I declined to read them, on account of the fact I am convinced Targ is telling the truth.

"The man who doesn't read has no advantage over the man who can't read." - Mark Twain.

 

[Scorpion]

If you had ever bothered to educate yourself about cognitive biases and the scientific method you would know why such anecdotes are a wholly inadequate basis on which to base any conclusion, let alone one which has mountains of objective evidence against it.

Have you read the article? You were the one who raised the subject of Targ's book, do you want an honest discussion of it or not?

I have read the article. I thought although it raises some discrepancy's it does not discuss all the tests that Targ and his team carried out. I still believe Targ is generally telling the truth. His tests were taken under strictly controlled conditions.

 

[Scorpion]

Open message to president Putin I just posted on twitter.

Putin, If you have psychic advisers ask them if this message is true. You may not care how many people you kill, but think of your own soul. It will carry a terrible karmic debt. You will be in darkness when you die, and your future incarnations will be harsh.
@KremlinRussia_E

 

[Mojo]

Open message to president Putin I just posted on twitter.

Putin, If you have psychic advisers ask them if this message is true. You may not care how many people you kill, but think of your own soul. It will carry a terrible karmic debt. You will be in darkness when you die, and your future incarnations will be harsh.
@KremlinRussia_E

That'll show him.

 

[Pixel42]

I have read the article. I thought although it raises some discrepancy's it does not discuss all the tests that Targ and his team carried out.

Of course it doesn't because (a) it's not just about him and (b) it's just a brief article. But the flaws and errors described are typical of his work, as you would would be able to confirm for yourself if you bothered to investigate further.

ETA: by all means describe the experiment of his you find the most convincing, there are several posters here who could analyse and critique it.

I still believe Targ is generally telling the truth.

It's not clear to me whether Targ is cynically taking advantage of the gullibility of people like you to sell books or is himself so ignorant and incompetent that he genuinely thinks he was doing science rather than pseudoscience. Either way, his conclusions are worthless.

His tests were taken under strictly controlled conditions.

If you had really read and understood the article you would know that is not true.

 

[JayUtah]

His tests were taken under strictly controlled conditions.

No. A protocol that does not explicitly eliminate the possibility of confirmation bias has not applied strict controls.

 

[arthwollipot]

There is a spirit world, and some mediums are genuine, the evidence I received in spiritualist churches over the years is enough to convince me of that.

But what if you're wrong?

 

[Darat]

Open message to president Putin I just posted on twitter.

Putin, If you have psychic advisers ask them if this message is true. You may not care how many people you kill, but think of your own soul. It will carry a terrible karmic debt. You will be in darkness when you die, and your future incarnations will be harsh.
@KremlinRussia_E

He is only doing what your karma angels have decided he should do and don't forget all those people harmed by him needed to be harmed.

 

[Scorpion]

But what if you're wrong?

I am not wrong, I have know for a while now the spirit world are inspiring me to do paintings. I have laid dormant for many years doing nothing. But the spirit world have taken to flashing beautiful pictures into my head. So I have started painting again. I though after the first one that it was coming from my subconscious mind. Until recently when I was laying in bed half awake. Suddenly the most beautiful picture I have ever seen flashed into my mind.
I shouted, "Oh God" and leaped out of bed to find a canvas to paint it on.
But the image only lasted a second and I found I could not remember the details. All I remember is it was a blue picture with a white bird in the foreground. I did not have time to look closely at the background, but it had buildings and trees and people. It was a glimpse of paradise. I have decided to paint a blue picture with a flock of white birds in it. But it will never come close to what I saw.

 

[Scorpion]

He is only doing what your karma angels have decided he should do and don't forget all those people harmed by him needed to be harmed.

Like the rest of us he has free will. But as I pointed out to him he also has karma. If he starts a nuclear war and destroys civilization his immortal soul will be bound to rebirth for countless suffering lifetimes. He will not know why he suffers in those future lives. But the angels of karma will know, and they will lead him into difficult lives that are intended to purge his soul. The only thing we who he annihilates can do is forgive him, and pray for his soul.

Would you then say, if you saw him suffering in a future incarnation, possibly on another planet, that he did not deserve it?

 

[arthwollipot]

I am not wrong,

But what if you are?

 

[Pixel42]

If memories are not passed on then the idea of reincarnation is meaningless nonsense.

There's no way of knowing what combination of nature and nurture created the monster that is Vladimir Putin, but it's highly unlikely it will ever recur. Certainly no individual in the future, created by an entirely different combination of nature and nurture and consequently an entirely different person, will deserve to suffer for what Vladimir Putin did.

BTW If you don't make any attempt to defend the pseudoscience of Russell Targ I will take that as a concession that you cannot.

 

[Darat]

Like the rest of us he has free will. But as I pointed out to him he also has karma. If he starts a nuclear war and destroys civilization his immortal soul will be bound to rebirth for countless suffering lifetimes. He will not know why he suffers in those future lives. But the angels of karma will know, and they will lead him into difficult lives that are intended to purge his soul. The only thing we who he annihilates can do is forgive him, and pray for his soul.

Would you then say, if you saw him suffering in a future incarnation, possibly on another planet, that he did not deserve it?

It's you who has the beliefs that determines that someone deserves to suffer, although you don't like to think about it but that little 3 year old girl who was raped by multiple men and then was beheaded (which is an actual thing - not a hypothetical - it happened) could - according to your beliefs - be the same spirit that we once knew as Hitler - so it makes it all OK that she suffered - well OK with you and your karma angels anyway.

As your above quote shows your stated beliefs hold that people must be harmed, must suffer even though the person will not know why they are suffering.

 

[Scorpion]

If memories are not passed on then the idea of reincarnation is meaningless nonsense.

There's no way of knowing what combination of nature and nurture created the monster that is Vladimir Putin, but it's highly unlikely it will ever recur. Certainly no individual in the future, created by an entirely different combination of nature and nurture and consequently an entirely different person, will deserve to suffer for what Vladimir Putin did.

BTW If you don't make any attempt to defend the pseudoscience of Russell Targ I will take that as a concession that you cannot.

You have obviously not studied the occult. The theory is we have several bodies higher than the physical one. They include the astral body and the mental body, and the causal body, or soul body.
The soul body is the store of all memories of past lives. We do not remember past lives because our physical brains only usually remember what is experienced in the present life. But it is claimed some people have remembered past lives, and Russell Targ give examples of some of these in his book, ' The reality of ESP'.

 

[Scorpion]

It's you who has the beliefs that determines that someone deserves to suffer, although you don't like to think about it but that little 3 year old girl who was raped by multiple men and then was beheaded (which is an actual thing - not a hypothetical - it happened) could - according to your beliefs - be the same spirit that we once knew as Hitler - so it makes it all OK that she suffered - well OK with you and your karma angels anyway.

As your above quote shows your stated beliefs hold that people must be harmed, must suffer even though the person will not know why they are suffering.

Suffering is a part of mortal life. Karmic suffering is not so much a punishment as a way of forcing changes in the soul. Souls are not easily changed, and People who have suffered generally develop more compassion for other human beings.

 

[Darat]

You have obviously not studied the occult. The theory is we have several bodies higher than the physical one. They include the astral body and the mental body, and the causal body, or soul body.
The soul body is the store of all memories of past lives. We do not remember past lives because our physical brains only usually remember what is experienced in the present life. But it is claimed some people have remembered past lives, and Russell Targ give examples of some of these in his book, ' The reality of ESP'.

1) "the occult" is not a singular thing
2) There is no theory behind any of it
3) Targ is an unreliable narrator - but you won't read anything about that so hardly worth the time to type this. What you have done with Targ is what you do with all your "sources" you think he supports one of your already held beliefs so you latch onto it. Remember how we took you through the books by "spiritualists" you kept mentioning and showed you they said things that contradicted your beliefs?

 

[Darat]

Suffering is a part of mortal life. Karmic suffering is not so much a punishment as a way of forcing changes in the soul. Souls are not easily changed, and People who have suffered generally develop more compassion for other human beings.

You very quickly forget what you posted - just a few posts above:

"...Would you then say, if you saw him suffering in a future incarnation, possibly on another planet, that he did not deserve it?..."​

In other words the 3-year-old girl being kidnapped, raped multiple times, and then beheaded deserved to be kidnapped, raped multiple times, and beheaded.

As ever your beliefs are to me the epitome of evil, no three-year-old deserves to be kidnapped, raped, and beheaded.

Your beliefs are sick, cruel, and harmful.

 

[Pixel42]

You have obviously not studied the occult.

There is no such thing. There's just a bunch of superstitious beliefs, without a shred of objective evidence for any of them. I know that, because unlike you I have actually bothered to look.

But it is claimed some people have remembered past lives, and Russell Targ give examples of some of these in his book, ' The reality of ESP'.

Examples which do not stand up to scrutiny, as you would know if you'd ever subjected them to any.

But go on: describe the best example he gives, so we can subject it to scrutiny ourselves. Right after you've described the best example he gives of a 'strictly controlled scientific test' demonstrating the existence of any supposedly paranormal ability, so that we can subject that to the scrutiny you refuse to apply yourself.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Like the rest of us he has free will. But as I pointed out to him he also has karma. If he starts a nuclear war and destroys civilization his immortal soul will be bound to rebirth for countless suffering lifetimes. He will not know why he suffers in those future lives. But the angels of karma will know, and they will lead him into difficult lives that are intended to purge his soul. The only thing we who he annihilates can do is forgive him, and pray for his soul.

Would you then say, if you saw him suffering in a future incarnation, possibly on another planet, that he did not deserve it?

And here's a great example when people ask 'What's the harm' in others believing crap like this. Taken to it's logical conclusion, there's nothing to worry about if we have a nuclear war because whoever started it will be punished in a future life (assuming there are any future lives for their 'souls' to inhabit!) and all the innocent victims will have a lovely future life (again assuming there are any new bodies for them to inhabit). Similarly, as others have pointed out, it excuses other terrible things happening to people because they deserve it for things they did in a previous life.*

There's a sort of twisted logic to it, if it were true, but by deferring blame and consequences to these mythical past or future lives, it cheapens everything that happens in the here and now...and despite Scorpion's certainty about this karmic cycle, the here and now is the only thing we can be relatively certain about.

*Didn't the English footballer Glenn Hoddle have some similarly despicable views - I seem to recall specifically about disabled people being born that way for misdeeds in a previous life?

Just indulge the hypothetical of 'What if you are wrong'? I realise you are convinced but presumably you've seen enough in life of people being wrong to know it's a possibility? So, just try that thought out and see, if you are wrong, how despicable that view would suddenly become, if that karmic cycle didn't exist.

 

[Gamolon]

As a matter of fact, in the 18 months I worked there I never spoke to her. Nor did I accuse her of anything after I left. What I did do was write a 3 page letter to the managing director several years later asking her for information about why she had helped her staff to try to give me a breakdown. She did not reply so I started a 2 year siege of the company. Then their corporate lawyers Dibb Lupton Alsop wrote me a letter demanding I desist or they would get me charged with harassment. I wrote back the next day telling them to go ahead and charge me, and I would state they had no case because under harassment law you are allowed to try and prove evidence of a crime. (this is designed to allow the police to avoid harassment charges) But it worked for me too. I said I was trying to prove negligence and the abuse of a mentally ill person, both of which are crimes. I did not hear from their lawyers so I carried on besieging the company for another 2 years. Finally their lawyers accused me of nuisance calls, and there is no let out clause in that law so I had to stop contacting them.

See the two hilited parts of your post that contradict each other.