Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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On the topic of sports... There have been several posters over the years who have made arguments supporting the participation of males in female sports, on the basis of whether or not those males view themselves as "women".

We've been told "Oh it will never happen" followed by "Well, if it does happen, it's going to be extremely rare" followed by "Well, there just aren't enough transgender identified males for it to make a difference"... and so forth and so on. There's always some excuse for why it's okay for females to lose out to males in female sports leagues.

Well... here's a really good compilation of the many cases of males who were mediocre when competing against other males, and who have transitioned to dominate female sports, breaking records left and right.

Tell me again how there's no downside to females when they're forced to allow males to compete against them for female wins?

Here's a thread on just some of the males who have gone on to win women's sports events - including how they performed in the men's category before they started identifying as women
 
Emily's Cat said:
Tell me again how there's no downside to females when they're forced to allow males to compete against them for female wins?
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Scrolling through that epic Twitter thread I came across the tweet about Fallon Fox, which reminded me of this: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...VdLNAHKLxr9GTKFl&id=605412007&mibextid=Nif5oz

Basically what happened was Fox spoke at a skeptic event in Missouri and some dudebro got upbraided (and possibly booted) for asking the most obvious question about fairness during the Q&A. That was sort of a peak moment for me, since my antennae go up whenever an ideology is protected from good faith questions.
 
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US trans clinic whistleblower Jamie Reed was interviewed on Triggernometry recently. I haven't had time to listen all the way through yet but it sounds interesting.

 
Elaedith said:
US trans clinic whistleblower Jamie Reed was interviewed on Triggernometry recently. I haven't had time to listen all the way through yet but it sounds interesting.

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By minute 18 I got to it was apparent the gatekeepers are all from the non heterosexual community.
The children would be on an irreversible path within 2 visits.
The initial phone call by the parent triggered a set pathway from which there was no escape.
 
Samson said:
By minute 18 I got to it was apparent the gatekeepers are all from the non heterosexual community.
The children would be on an irreversible path within 2 visits.
The initial phone call by the parent triggered a set pathway from which there was no escape.
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I don't think sexuality is directly relevant. Lots of gender identity enthusiasts are heterosexual. Lots of gay people are critical of gender identity ideology and current practices with minors.
Jamie Reed mentioned that people being recruited to gender clinics usually have an activist mindset and must go along with the prevailing views on sex and gender. Activists have driven out anybody who has concerns about affirmation-only approaches with minors.
Another point I found interesting was that she pointed out the similarities with the Tavistock in the way that anyone raising concerns was treated.
 
Elaedith said:
I don't think sexuality is directly relevant. Lots of gender identity enthusiasts are heterosexual. Lots of gay people are critical of gender identity ideology and current practices with minors.
Jamie Reed mentioned that people being recruited to gender clinics usually have an activist mindset and must go along with the prevailing views on sex and gender. Activists have driven out anybody who has concerns about affirmation-only approaches with minors.
Another point I found interesting was that she pointed out the similarities with the Tavistock in the way that anyone raising concerns was treated.
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The Atlantic seems to have Hannah Barnes and Abigail Schrier on each side, being dispassionate chroniclers of the phenomenon.
My concern is local. Schools are now dangerous, not because the kids will be afflicted, but because there is a remote possibility that they may be.
Remote is way too close.
 
Elaedith said:
US trans clinic whistleblower Jamie Reed was interviewed on Triggernometry recently. I haven't had time to listen all the way through yet but it sounds interesting.

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I watched it yesterday. What caught my attention was her rant towards the end where she complains about how kids in those environments have less incentives to explore their sexuality and overall personality, and are instead given a narrow path towards transition the minute they are slightly gender nonconforming.

It's as if being gender nonconforming automatically triggered a response from their environment, which decimates all the nuance that our societies have been working on for the past 40 years, sending us back to the simplistic and binary expectations of a past that we all thought was gone for good.

That "are we back in the 50's" bit. That's a sentiment that I've seen repeated again and again.
 
Samson said:
The Atlantic seems to have Hannah Barnes and Abigail Schrier on each side, being dispassionate chroniclers of the phenomenon.
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I've read both Irreversible Damage and Time to Think and can say with some confidence that only one of those books can be aptly described as a dispassionate chronicle. You can probably guess which just by looking at their respective titles. :)
 
Wayward son2 said:
The others of those I know/knew (minority in the past, probably majority today) were not interested in going into unisex washrooms. In some cases it was because they passed quite well. But more often then not it was because they felt it confirmed their basic identity (or in some cases, they seemed to get a bit of a rise out of making certain types of people uncomfortable).
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Nice to see a long time lurker posting, and you're right on the money with the post.

The making people uncomfortable is a two-way street as well.

I took a trans date to a christmas party 35 years ago. It was for a firm of accountants I was working with and the (old, white male) partners collectively **** themselves over it. The girl I was with used the women's toilets and none of the women at the event had a problem with that. The flip side is I believe it would have been very dangerous if she'd had to use the men's toilets.

Samson said:
On sport, here is NZ policy from 12 22
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And here's Dale Shepherd's response to it: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other...ale-powerlifter-entry-into-womens-competition

Failed in Dale's attempt, sadly.

Nice to see Raelene Castle's face at the helm of NZ sport - a magnificent example of someone continually failing upwards. She's utterly worthless and has failed at every job she ever had yet manages to convince people she's worth paying exorbitant amounts of money for.
 
Samson said:
On sport, here is NZ policy from 12 22

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/sp...port/7PKHVZB4MVAAXNTX5GGO73VXF4/?ref=readmore
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:mad:

The overarching principle of the guidelines is that “every New Zealander has the right to participate in sport and to be treated with respect, empathy and positive regard”.
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Unless those New Zealnders are female, I guess. Female New Zealnaders don't have a right to participate and be treated with respect, empathy, and positive regard it seems.
 
Dani said:
I watched it yesterday. What caught my attention was her rant towards the end where she complains about how kids in those environments have less incentives to explore their sexuality and overall personality, and are instead given a narrow path towards transition the minute they are slightly gender nonconforming.

It's as if being gender nonconforming automatically triggered a response from their environment, which decimates all the nuance that our societies have been working on for the past 40 years, sending us back to the simplistic and binary expectations of a past that we all thought was gone for good.

That "are we back in the 50's" bit. That's a sentiment that I've seen repeated again and again.
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That sentiment kind of captures my feelings too. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, we had a LOT of gender-bending icons. They were awesome and respected. We had made progress away from the social baggage of "sugar and spice" versus "snips and snails".

In the last couple of decades, it really seems like those social roles have been reified and reinforced. From my vantage, they're even worse for females than they used to be, because now there's this added layer of pornificiation involved, that expects females to embrace being an object for the titillation of males, because somehow that's "empowering". It's like regressive social stereotypes had a love affair with domestic abuse, and this is where we've ended up.
 
The Atheist said:
Nice to see a long time lurker posting, and you're right on the money with the post.

The making people uncomfortable is a two-way street as well.

I took a trans date to a christmas party 35 years ago. It was for a firm of accountants I was working with and the (old, white male) partners collectively **** themselves over it. The girl I was with used the women's toilets and none of the women at the event had a problem with that. The flip side is I believe it would have been very dangerous if she'd had to use the men's toilets.
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As a generality, sure, I can see an argument that non-gender-conforming males are at risk of being attacked by other males in male spaces.

But at a christmas party full of accountants? I wouldn't have thought that accountants as a cohort were particularly aggressive.
 
Emily's Cat said:
As a generality, sure, I can see an argument that non-gender-conforming males are at risk of being attacked by other males in male spaces.

But at a christmas party full of accountants? I wouldn't have thought that accountants as a cohort were particularly aggressive.
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They would have beaten her severely with their green eyeshades.:D
 
Emily's Cat said:
As a generality, sure, I can see an argument that non-gender-conforming males are at risk of being attacked by other males in male spaces.

But at a christmas party full of accountants? I wouldn't have thought that accountants as a cohort were particularly aggressive.
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I'm sure they're not, as with any professional group.

Aside from the fact that a lot of the attendees were clients, at least one of the senior accountants had been a rep rugby player. Not all accountants are 98-lb weaklings.
 
FatherLukeduke said:
I can only imagine the pain and suffering they must be experiencing. Do you know if there is a charity set up to aid these poor women? I'd really like to get involved. Really make a difference.
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Yes. I can only imagine how desperately hard it must have been for those women not to be able to hear, in person, Keen-Minshull shouting "Women don't have penises! No man has a vagina! There's no such thing as non-binary!", together with her deeply ironic "I! NEVER! LOSE!". And sundry other anti-transgender-identity statements.

I'm all in for donating to their cause as well.


(At least they can console themselves with the fact that they did get to hear Keen-Minshull screaming "YOU CALLED ME A ******* NAZI!" several times. Classic stuff.)
 
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Been watching Contrapoints's response to Witch Trials of JK Rowling.

Not watched that much yet, but Contrapoints parallels JKR with Anita Bryant, who was a campaigner against gay rights...

 
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