Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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Here is an argument for trans women on the women's podium.

"Far more common than a trans woman beating a cis woman to a place on the podium, is a trans kid shying away from interaction with their peers. A vulnerable kid becoming more vulnerable.

Our trans friends and whānau need and deserve our support – and they must be part of the game."

Behind paywall

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/edito...in-sport-hint-yes/HXJPWCOTYVDRTOUYKHF3Q4LZEI/

As an editorial I guess it is an editor on the paper. It shows the state of capture of the politicians, media and academics by the activists in New Zealand.
 
Female is invited to speak at an event on a San Francisco college campus. Female is subjected to aggressive shouting and vilification, physically assaulted, and ends up barricaded in a room for three hours by transgender activists.

Riley Gaines is a swimmer who was beaten out by Lia Thomas, and is speaking on the need for sex-separation in sports.

https://www.thefire.org/news/outrageous-sfsu-students-shout-down-riley-gaines-and-accost-her-after-event

While Gaines gave her speech, protestors continued to disrupt the event, drowning her out by stomping and yelling inside the room and in the hallway immediately outside while she spoke. After her speech, police attempted to escort Gaines to a secure location, but the crowd followed them out of the room and down the hallway, screaming and shouting until police locked Gaines in a secure room. Gaines reportedly remained trapped inside the room for almost three hours until the protestors dispersed and police escorted her out.
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I'm a bit baffled as to why the police left this person stranded and locked in a room for three hours instead of rounding up the violent mob and removing them from the area.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Female is invited to speak at an event on a San Francisco college campus. Female is subjected to aggressive shouting and vilification, physically assaulted, and ends up barricaded in a room for three hours by transgender activists.

Riley Gaines is a swimmer who was beaten out by Lia Thomas, and is speaking on the need for sex-separation in sports.

https://www.thefire.org/news/outrageous-sfsu-students-shout-down-riley-gaines-and-accost-her-after-event



I'm a bit baffled as to why the police left this person stranded and locked in a room for three hours instead of rounding up the violent mob and removing them from the area.
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Chapter and verse the treatment of Posie Parker in Albert Park except eventually she was escorted.
 
What really gets me is that there are many, many gatherings of transgender people and their supporters happening fairly regularly. I have yet to see a report of hordes of violence females showing up to heckle, intimidate, and assault the transgender people.
 
I suppose everyone has seen this doco, but covered everything I could think of. Much discussion of terms, and a resounding rejection of "cis women"

Adult Human Female. Will send link to Chris Hipkins.

https://youtu.be/94HFMSm-JBo
 
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Emily's Cat said:
What really gets me is that there are many, many gatherings of transgender people and their supporters happening fairly regularly. I have yet to see a report of hordes of violence females showing up to heckle, intimidate, and assault the transgender people.
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It's almost as if one side of the debate resorts to tactics other than argumentation because they suspect their own arguments are noticably rather weak.

Possibly they have a good argument, but this sure as **** ain't showcasing it
 
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Ron Obvious said:
One assumes they would be afraid of being accused of being transphobic if they'd had. I don't understand it either.
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The bar is set so low for accusations of transphobia that people are accused of it for posting opinions on obscure internet forums that question self ID’d transwomen imposing on women’s rights….
 
d4m10n said:
Fair enough, let's come up with a sample of representative activist groups. We know that Mermaids wants males to compete against females (and set new female swim records) but what do the other groups say?
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The opinion of trans people is no more represented by any "group" than is yours or mine we would only ever know if there was some sort of survey.

My guess is that most trans women would not want to be able to force themselves into women's sport, but I really don't know and neither does anyone else at the moment unless there is some properly conducted survey.
 
Robin said:
The opinion of trans people is no more represented by any "group" than is yours or mine we would only ever know if there was some sort of survey.

My guess is that most trans women would not want to be able to force themselves into women's sport, but I really don't know and neither does anyone else at the moment unless there is some properly conducted survey.
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Are you aware of the influence Mermaids has had over the UK government? Reading your posts, I’d say no.
 
d4m10n said:
It's almost as if one side of the debate resorts to tactics other than argumentation because they suspect their own arguments are noticably rather weak.

Possibly they have a good argument, but this sure as **** ain't showcasing it
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Neither side of this debate appear to have any good arguments.

The gender critical side mostly don't seem to want to admit that being trans is a real experience that people have. They also don't seem to want to admit that what needs to be tackled are the societal attitudes that are driving this
 
Robin said:
Neither side of this debate appear to have any good arguments.

The gender critical side mostly don't seem to want to admit that being trans is a real experience that people have.
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You seem to focus on the "real experience" and "lived experience" terms without ever really defining them. Not that I expect you to, just letting you know it hasn't gone unnoticed.
 
Robin said:
The gender critical side mostly don't seem to want to admit that being trans is a real experience that people have.
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No one here doubts the reality of gender dysphoria as a diagnosable condition, IIRC. The question is what social concessions should follow therefrom, or as Dave Chappelle put it, "To what degree do I have to participate in your self-image?"

Robin said:
Neither side of this debate appear to have any good arguments.
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I'd say there are some pretty solid arguments for the proposition that folks like Lia Thomas shouldn't be taking advantage of their situation in order to set pool and event records in the women's ledger and undress in front of their teammates. Does that seem unreasonable to you?
 
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d4m10n said:
No one here doubts the reality of gender dysphoria as a diagnosable condition, IIRC. The question is what social concessions should follow therefrom, or as Dave Chappelle put it, "To what degree do I have to participate in your self-image?"
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But on the other hand Chappelle did make the same point about a trans people that I just did. A lot of people missed that about him.

I actually see transgender people as making a concession to the irrational attitude society at large has about sex and gender.

I would love to be able to convince them that their biological sex means nothing at all in terms of how they ought to feel, how they ought to dress, how they ought to behave.

The question is, what do we want transgender people to do?

A. Behave according to societal expectations of their birth sex or

B. Behave as they wish but acknowledge their biological sex for the purposes of sports, women only areas and dating people who have a preference for a particular biological sex..

I would go with B, but others might have different ideas.

I'd say there are some pretty solid arguments for the proposition that folks like Lia Thomas shouldn't be taking advantage of their situation in order to set pool and event records in the women's ledger and undress in front of their teammates. Does that seem unreasonable to you?
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I have already said I agreed with that a number of times. If the gender critical side stuck to those kinds of points then I would have no complaint.
 
Unless people come back to defend the vicious Mob that destroyed the opportunity for genuine women like Yvonne Dongen to hear Posie Parker in Albert Park there is a concensus on the thread.
 
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Robin said:
The question is, what do we want transgender people to do?

A. Behave according to societal expectations of their birth sex or

B. Behave as they wish but acknowledge their biological sex for the purposes of sports, women only areas and dating people who have a preference for a particular biological sex..
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Right wing Christians and fascists would probably tend towards A. Left wing lesbians and feminists would probably tend towards B. I'm with the feminists and lesbians myself.
 
Matthew Best said:
Right wing Christians and fascists would probably tend towards A. Left wing lesbians and feminists would probably tend towards B. I'm with the feminists and lesbians myself.
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Me too. And I would bet most who post here as well.

If that makes me a transphobe, so be it.
 
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