Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

Status
Not open for further replies.
I recognised that but couldn't and still can't link that to the post you were commenting on.

Rolling up transgender status into "sexual orientation" in the relevant Minnesota law.

UK law considers them separately, but some campaigners try to deliberately join them; it doesn't look like an "issue peculiar to Minnesota" to me.
 
Rolling up transgender status into "sexual orientation" in the relevant Minnesota law.



UK law considers them separately, but some campaigners try to deliberately join them; it doesn't look like an "issue peculiar to Minnesota" to me.
So which other states have such legislation?
 
Don't know.

Why do you think it is an "issue peculiar to Minnesota"?

Because it's not come up in any of the other similar judgements I've read, or in other reports I've read and it doesn't come up in the UK and so on. But of course if you can come up with some other examples I'll withdraw my terribly important "peculiar".
 
I've moved a lot of posts from the drag and gender identity thread to this one
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob
 
Here is a debate between Professor Kathleen Stock and trans woman Professor Deirdre McCloskey about sex, gender and identity, which touches on most of the issues in this thread.



I enjoy listening to Professor Stock, but for a brief moment, right as soon as Professor McCloskey started speaking I thought I wouldn't be able to go any further, but don't worry, it gets much better.

Naturally I think Stock speaks a lot of sense, but the discussion is not particularly bad-tempered, and it's only an hour long.
 
Here is a debate between Professor Kathleen Stock and trans woman Professor Deirdre McCloskey about sex, gender and identity, which touches on most of the issues in this thread.

I enjoy listening to Professor Stock, but for a brief moment, right as soon as Professor McCloskey started speaking I thought I wouldn't be able to go any further, but don't worry, it gets much better.

Naturally I think Stock speaks a lot of sense, but the discussion is not particularly bad-tempered, and it's only an hour long.

Thanks for posting the link.

Deirdre McCloskey is one of the three ringleaders of the campaign to destroy Michael Bailey, as described in the article by Alice Dreger I linked to some time back in an earlier thread edition:

The Controversy Surrounding The Man Who Would Be Queen: A Case History of the Politics of Science, Identity, and Sex in the Internet Age

McCloskey wasn't the worst of the three though (Andrea James was responsible for posting pictures of Bailey's children online with sexually explicit comments).

McCloskey is now affiliated with the proposed University of Austin (UATX) and now seems to be all about debate.

Andrea James went on to attempt to destroy Alice Dreger for writing the expose of the attempt to destroy Bailey, and also admitted to being behind the firing of Zucker, which was partly motivated by his having published Dreger's article.

picture.php
 
Calling it "cosmetic" makes it sound like it is not the standard of care being prescribed by a team of doctors to treat a condition with well-defined diagnostic criteria. If the doctors and the parents and the patient all agree with the treatment plan, I don't see why the legislature should make patients drive to Illinois for this particular treatment.

When the "standard of care" is a double mastectomy for a 17 year old female who decided they were trans after about 30 days on the internet investigating it, and about 30 minutes talking to a "gender specialist", in a state where if the parents object they get investigated as being "transphobic" and risk having their child taken away from them... I have a pretty serious issue with that "standard of care".

When the number of females who were subjected to that "well defined diagnostic criteria" but who have since come forward to say it was a wrong diagnosis, ignored their underlying issues, and are now traumatized that they have no sensation in their chests and no ability to breastfeed if they have a kid in the future keeps increasing every day... I question pretty much all of your implicit assumptions.
 
10 may contract for life insurance. (This seems weird.)

Lol, yes, it is weird. But I can speculate about the reasons for it. It's in reference largely to whole life, universal life, and annuity products. The premium rates on those are based on mortality rates from the age of engagement. Essentially, the insurance company takes the face value of the policy (the amount it pays out in the event that the contingent action occurs), and then amortizes that amount with a standard interest rate over the expected lifetime of the policyholder.

For someone age 10, that's going to result in an extremely low premium rate, even for a $1M policy.

This exception essentially allows for parents to purchase a whole life policy for their child, in their child's name, at very low premiums. And given that the policyholder is the child, then the child keeps ownership of the policy for their whole lifetime. This is in contrast to a "child" policy, where the policyholder is the parent, and the child is the covered life. In that case, the policy expires when the child becomes an adult.

I would bet that the contract requires the parent(s) to sign via power of attorney, not actually allowing the child to sign.

My spouse had one of these. Their mother bought it when they were like 12 or something. It's a $100K policy, with a premium of $19 per quarter. My spouse is the listed policyholder, although their mother was financially responsible for the premium payments until my spouse became an adult.
 
Plus, "cosmetic" automatically implies discretionary and somewhat superficial*... whereas in the case of transgender identity, medically-appropriate surgical (or medical, for that matter) intervention is not viewed as discretionary - it's viewed as necessary and therapeutic in nature.

From a medical perspective, it IS cosmetic. It IS discretionary and superficial.

There is no bodily harm to the patient if the procedure is not done, it is 100% voluntary.

You know how you can tell that it's discretionary? If it were not discretionary, there would be huge warnings to children who did not want to cut their breasts off in order to affirm their identity, and we would view parents who did not force their female children to remove their breasts to be bad parents.

Would you take that stand? Would you, LondonJohn, go on record stating that it is dangerous and life threating for a female child who has expressed a transgender identity to NOT get a double mastectomy? Would you argue that the breasts themselves represent a serious medical risk to the life of the female child? Would you go on record with the opinion that parent's who do not FORCE their female child to get their breasts removed are acting against the interest of their child's health and are at best negligent in their parental duties?
 
And in different countries never mind different states those ages differ. Here in the UK we can drink at 18 and here in Scotland voting for Scottish elections is allowed at 16. Always found it odd that you could buy a gun before you could buy a pint in the USA. Though, given your propensity to shoot one another I suppose we wouldn't want people drunk in charge of firearms

How's that spree of knife murders going over there on the other side of the pond?
 
USA Powerlifting has lost a lawsuit brought by a trans woman who claimed that she was discriminated against by being denied the opportunity to compete in women's events. USA Powerlifting will now have to change their rules and allow transwomen to compete in the women's division - within the next two weeks.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/04/usa-powerlifting-to-allow-trans-athletes-to-compete-after-losing-suit/

Hooray! Another nail in the coffin of female athletes! We're on our way to making sure that no females of any age can engage in athletics, and athletics are only open to males! What a wonderful win!

/s
 
Plus, "cosmetic" automatically implies discretionary and somewhat superficial*

I don't really care what you think it implies. It's the truth. "Top surgery" as a treatment for gender dysphoria is purely cosmetic. That's just a fact. It offers zero functional gain, its sole purpose is to change a person's appearance.

... whereas in the case of transgender identity, medically-appropriate surgical (or medical, for that matter) intervention is not viewed as discretionary - it's viewed as necessary and therapeutic in nature.

Why would surgical intervention be necessary if transgender identity isn't a disorder? Why would it be therapeutic if a transgender person wasn't experiencing any distress?

Your entire conception of transgender identity, gender dysphoria, and even what a disorder means is self-contradictory nonsense.

And maybe it's worth reiterating (again) that transgender identity is nowadays considered a valid condition by the entirety of mainstream medicine** - which is precisely why treatments/therapies to affirm transgender identity (provided they are agreed by both the transgender person and the clinicians treating them) are considered medically-suitable, necessary, and restorative in terms of the overall health of the person concerned.

Yeah, no. Surgeries with serious risks and negative side effects are only considered medically necessary if they're to treat a problem. The medical profession approves of sex change operations because they are considered effective treatments for a disorder, namely gender dysphoria. There is no medical consensus on surgeries for "transgender identity" without dysphoria. Hell, I don't think there's even medical consensus on what "transgender identity" without gender dysphoria even means. You certainly don't have a handle on it, since you don't even know what gender dysphoria means.
 
When the "standard of care" is a double mastectomy for a 17 year old female who decided they were trans after about 30 days on the internet investigating it, and about 30 minutes talking to a "gender specialist", in a state where if the parents object they get investigated as being "transphobic" and risk having their child taken away from them... I have a pretty serious issue with that "standard of care".
I, too, would have serious issues with this hypothetical case. That said, I've seen no evidence that the proposed Nebraska law was designed to address such a slipshod approach—even the most cautious approach to youth gender medicine endorsed by the Dutch protocol would be banned.

When the number of females who were subjected to that "well defined diagnostic criteria" but who have since come forward to say it was a wrong diagnosis, ignored their underlying issues, and are now traumatized that they have no sensation in their chests and no ability to breastfeed if they have a kid in the future keeps increasing every day...
The number of people who regret any given medical intervention is increasing every day, on account of the number of people having access to medical interventions increasing every day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom