Election Day!

[Orwell]

Relying on stupidity, fear mongering, and what is clearly some sort of collective blow to the head in Ontario resulting in memory loss, equals impressive?

I think it's about the saddest thing I've ever seen.

You're so easily impressed, Jas!

Maybe, in fact, Ontarian's memory is pretty good. Maybe they still remember some of Stockwell "Doris" Day's and Cheryl Gallant's stupid remarks, eh?

 

[Badger]

You're so easily impressed, Jas!

Maybe, in fact, Ontarian's memory is pretty good. Maybe they still remember some of Stockwell "Doris" Day's and Cheryl Gallant's stupid remarks, eh?

And we still remember the NEP and Trudeau's finger.

Did you catch 60 minutes on Sunday night? You and your fellow Ontarians might want to think about that for a bit. Enjoy your time in the sun.

 

[Jas]

Oh, and even if you have a damn free vote on the gay rights question: big whoop. Unless Harper wants to invoke the derogatory clause, he can't do anything about it. And there's a pretty good chance he would loose that vote anyway.

Hence why I really dont care about their social policy. I'm pro gay marriage, and even if the Tories could do something about it, I would still vote Tory, as my MP supports gay marriage (which he was able to do since Harper allowed a free vote).

You're so easily impressed, Jas!

Maybe, in fact, Ontarian's memory is pretty good. Maybe they still remember some of Stockwell "Doris" Day's and Cheryl Gallant's stupid remarks, eh?

Reread my post. I wasn't the one who was impressed.

And yeah, no one's doiubting that Stockwell Day made stupid remarks. But guess what? He's not head of the Conservatives, and a couple stupid remarks by the former leader is in no way equal to corruption.

 

[Orwell]

Fellow Ontarians, eh? I'm in Montreal, Badger. And I've never voted liberal, and I never will. And no, I didn't catch 60 Minutes. Unlike certain conservatives, I don't get my information from American TV.

 

[Orwell]

Reread my post. I wasn't the one who was impressed.

You said "I think it's about the saddest thing I've ever seen." Obviously a bit of hyperbole, as I can think of many things that are much sadder... Hence the "you're so easily impressed" comment.

 

[Jas]

You said "I think it's about the saddest thing I've ever seen." Obviously a bit of hyperbole, as I can think of many things that are much sadder... Hence the "you're so easily impressed" comment.

That people collectively bend over and take it up the *ss, time and time again?

Nope, I still that that's one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

 

[Badger]

Fellow Ontarians, eh? I'm in Montreal, Badger. And I've never voted liberal, and I never will. And no, I didn't catch 60 Minutes. Unlike certain conservatives, I don't get my information from American TV.

My apologies. I assumed you were from Ontario. Thank you for the correction.

I only watched 60 minutes to see their piece on the Tar Sands. Apparently, the US and China have recently noticed that they're there. This is good news for us 'blue eyed sheiks', as well as for the Canadian economy in general. The implications to the power balance in Canada are interesting to ponder as well.

 

[Orwell]

That people collectively bend over and take it up the *ss, time and time again?

Nope, I still that that's one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

Hyperbole again. You've voted for a conservative candidate, although you don't like some of the more socially conservative positions of the party. Maybe many Ontarians voted for their liberal candidate, in their ridding, in spite of not approving of the deals of the liberal leadership. Or maybe they just decided to believe Paul martin when he said that he wasn't involved. Or maybe they'd rather have a mildly corrupt centrist government instead of someone they perceive as being on the hard right. I can imagine a bunch of very reasonable possibilities that don't involve "collectively bending over and taking it up the *ss, time and time again" to explain why so many Ontarians voted the way they did.

 

[Jas]

Hyperbole again. You've voted for a conservative candidate, although you don't like some of the more socially conservative positions of the party. Maybe many Ontarians voted for their liberal candidate, in their ridding, in spite of not approving of the deals of the liberal leadership.

No, I don't like the more socially conservative aspects of the Tories. However[/i], as I have stated previously, my MP's postion on social issues is fairly close to mine. Because Stephen Harper allowed for a free vote within the Conservatives, MP's were allowed to vote based on their conscience and the wishes of their constituents, which mine did.

Or maybe they just decided to believe Paul martin when he said that he wasn't involved.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Or maybe they'd rather have a mildly corrupt centrist government instead of someone they perceive as being on the hard right. I can imagine a bunch of very reasonable possibilities that don't involve "collectively bending over and taking it up the *ss, time and time again" to explain why so many Ontarians voted the way they did.

Yeah, let's vote for the party that we know for a fact is corrupt, and will not deliver on election promises. How is that not bending over, again?

**edited to fix tags

 

[jj]

Yeah, let's vote for the party that we know for a fact is corrupt, and will not deliver on election promises. How is that not bending over, again?

**edited to fix tags

When the alternative is even worse. Reminds me of elections down here.

 

[Jas]

When the alternative is even worse. Reminds me of elections down here.

Which alternative are you referring to, jj?

The Tories, the NDP, the Green Party, the Bloc or one of numerous independents?

And frankly, I don't see how the Tories are worse than an openly corrupt party.

ETA: I'm a bit confused over how it reminds you of elections down there. Please clarify.

 

[punchdrunk]

Which alternative are you referring to, jj?

The Tories, the NDP, the Green Party, the Bloc or one of numerous independents?

And frankly, I don't see how the Tories are worse than an openly corrupt party.

ETA: I'm a bit confused over how it reminds you of elections down there. Please clarify.

Probably meant the U.S...

 

[Thanz]

And frankly, I don't see how the Tories are worse than an openly corrupt party.

Are we supposed to assume that the entire party is forever corrupt because of the actions of some?

What if we disagree with the policy direction of the Conservatives? Are we supposed to vote for them anyway in case some westerner calls us bad names? What if we are apprehensive about the Tories after Harris?

If you like the Conservative agenda, fine. I can accept that. But why do you think that it is okay to hurl insults at those who disagree with it and refuse to vote for it?

 

[Badger]

Are we supposed to assume that the entire party is forever corrupt because of the actions of some?

What if we disagree with the policy direction of the Conservatives? Are we supposed to vote for them anyway in case some westerner calls us bad names? What if we are apprehensive about the Tories after Harris?

If you like the Conservative agenda, fine. I can accept that. But why do you think that it is okay to hurl insults at those who disagree with it and refuse to vote for it?

With regard to the first point, if it occurs repeatedly, one could make an assumption.

With regard to the second point, one could also invent their own party.

No, it's not okay to hurl insults. We just can't understand why people continue to vote liberal.

 

[Thanz]

With regard to the first point, if it occurs repeatedly, one could make an assumption.

One could. That doesn't mean that one must, nor that if one doesn't they have their collective heads up their rectums.

With regard to the second point, one could also invent their own party.

Boy, that's really worked out well for you guys on the right, hasn't it? Especially from the West. Once the Liberals get into power again (and let's face it, it is only a matter of time) what are you guys going to call the inevitable Western alienation protest party? Will you dig through the vaults for a classic like the Progressives? Try Reform again and hope people forget Preston? Or maybe declare another Alliance that is not an Alliance at all? See, that is a great way to split the vote and ensure that the other guys remain in power. Great strategy.

No, it's not okay to hurl insults. We just can't understand why people continue to vote liberal.

Probably because, whether they have to hold their nose or not, the policy position put forward by them most closely resembles their beliefs.

 

[Badger]

Boy, that's really worked out well for you guys on the right, hasn't it? Especially from the West. Once the Liberals get into power again (and let's face it, it is only a matter of time) what are you guys going to call the inevitable Western alienation protest party? Will you dig through the vaults for a classic like the Progressives? Try Reform again and hope people forget Preston? Or maybe declare another Alliance that is not an Alliance at all? See, that is a great way to split the vote and ensure that the other guys remain in power. Great strategy.

I hear what you're saying. But the feeling of Western alienation is real. If it's not addressed, there will be another western party of some sort.

 

[Segnosaur]

Are we supposed to assume that the entire party is forever corrupt because of the actions of some?

First of all, it is true that many people do unfairly tarnish ALL liberals as corrupt. I'm sure there are some honest, upstanding Liberals. But there are also corrupt Liberals. Here's the problem: with ad-scam, Martin was honestly able to say "I know nothing". If Martin really DID know nothing, what does that say about his ability to root out corruption in his party? How do we know what other scandals have been covered up?

Secondly, you used the phrase "forever corrupt". Many people voted against the Liberals because, even if it is possible for them to root out the problem, they would need some time to do so. Let them sit in opposition for a term or 2, let the conservatives run things, THEN see what's going to happen..

Personally, I would have trusted Martin a little more over his efforts to 'clean up' the government if, prior to the last election, he would have allowed the commons committee investigating ad-scam to continue its work.

By the way... to anyone who claims that the Liberal party shouldn't be judged on the actions of a few 'corrupt' people... how come you don't speak out when others criticize the 'entire' conservative party over the actions of a minority?

If you like the Conservative agenda, fine. I can accept that. But why do you think that it is okay to hurl insults at those who disagree with it and refuse to vote for it?

Perhaps many conservative supporters are upset because so much of the Liberal campaign was based on lies and deception. This doesn't mean that ALL people who voted Liberal did so because of things like negative ads, but when you regularly see Martin (and his supporters) suggesting the conservatives would eliminate abortion rights (even though its not in their program), can you blame them for being annoyed?

I sometimes read some of the Canadian political web sites, and its amazing how irrational some people get when criticizing the conservatives.

 

[Thanz]

I hear what you're saying. But the feeling of Western alienation is real. If it's not addressed, there will be another western party of some sort.

And, of course, there isn't such a thing as "Ontario alienation". Central Canada has been driving the bus for so long there is no need to form any sort of other party to address our issues.

Is a Triple-E senate part of the current Conservative platform?

 

[Orwell]

Does anyone want me to go on and on about Quebec alienation? Quebec: alienated since 1760... Je me souviens, eh?

And the senate: just get rid of the damn thing, there are way too many levels of government in this country as it is, don't need another one competing with the parliament and the provinces.

 

[Badger]

And, of course, there isn't such a thing as "Ontario alienation". Central Canada has been driving the bus for so long there is no need to form any sort of other party to address our issues.

Is a Triple-E senate part of the current Conservative platform?

You're driving the bus, and you're unhappy where it's taking you? I need some time to wrap my head around that one. You have almost 4 times the representation in parlaiment that we do. If you're unhappy, you have a lot you can do about it. We just have to shut up and keep the money flowing east. You're still the dog and we're still the tail.

Triple E senate wasn't discussed this round, but in passing Harper said it'd be looked at. I think he's going to turn senate picks over to the provinces in that he'll appoint whoever the provinces recommend.