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Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

d4m10n said:
Here (once again) is the definition of cancel culture:
People are demonstrably withdrawing support from the show, after the main host did and/or said something objectionable or offensive.
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Nope, that is actually "Consequence Culture".

Its good to see consequences for people who behave objectionably, such as when they commit sexual harassment, and I fully support those who choose to visit consequences on such people.

When businesses pull their advertising on TV shows such as Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour, or Laura Ingraham's The Ingraham Angle, that's not "cancelling" that's "consequences". That's the businesses exercising their right not to have their brand and good name associated with a pair of racist douchebags. The same applies here... those people who no longer support Torrez are exercising their right to impose consequences on him for his behaviour. I support those rights, and I always will.
 
d4m10n said:
Here (once again) is the definition of cancel culture:
People are demonstrably withdrawing support from the show, after the main host did and/or said something objectionable or offensive.
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You also claimed that what happened to the adjunct professor at Hamline was an example of “cancel culture”, despite not meeting certain conditions of the aforementioned definition. The term seems quite malleable in your usage of it, to the point of being functionally meaningless.
 
johnny karate said:
You also claimed that what happened to the adjunct professor at Hamline was an example of “cancel culture”, despite not meeting certain conditions of the aforementioned definition.
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Which conditions were not met?

johnny karate said:
What is your proposal to address this issue? Please be specific.
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I've already mentioned "self-restraint in the face of outrage gone viral," and you've already replied to that series of posts, so you can probably guess what my proposal would be.

smartcooky said:
Nope, that is actually "Consequence Culture".
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You should write in and have the dictionary editors consider your suggestion; perhaps they were mistaken about which phrase people have been using to describe this phenomenon.
 
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d4m10n said:
Which conditions were not met?
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What support was withdrawn? How was social media or group shaming involved?

I've already mentioned "self-restraint in the face of outrage gone viral," and you've already replied to that series of posts, so you can probably guess what my proposal would be.
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You must have missed the part where I requested that you be specific. Generic and nebulous platitudes do not meet that requirement. What parameters determine restraint? Who is establishing those parameters?
 
d4m10n said:
Which conditions were not met?
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Most of them, from what I can see: withdrawing support, social media, group shaming

d4m10n said:
I've already mentioned "self-restraint in the face of outrage gone viral," and you've already replied to that series of posts, so you can probably guess what my proposal would be.
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At what point should the instigators of the bad acts be held to the "self-restraint" standard? I would suggest before they chose to publicly do a bad act which caused people to lose interest in them. But hey, you'd rather blame people for reacting negatively to bad acts than blame the people who actually did the bad acts.
 
From the website of 'The Foundation for Individual Rights & Expression', another campus blasphemy case from Minnesota.



But this time both the both the transgressor and 'victim' are members of what the Woke call the 'Muslim Race'.


The cause, the means used to support the Iranian Protests, the result, artworks covered by black curtains so that none may see them and be harmed by the sight.


Again this is probably more 'Censorship Culture', but I thought it worth mentioning.



On the heels of a national controversy over blasphemy and art at nearby Hamline College, now St. Paul, Minnesota’s Macalester College is mired in its own dispute over artistic imagery and religious offense, complete with a “content warning” and black curtains temporarily censoring artwork.

On Jan. 27, an exhibit by Iranian-American artist Taravat Talepasand opened at the college’s Law Warschaw Gallery, the culmination of conversations taking place between Talepasand and the college since 2019. The exhibit, TARAVAT, comments on a range of issues related to gender and religious and political power.
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https://www.thefire.org/news/yet-an...a-macalester-college-covers-iranian-americans
 
JoeMorgue said:
It's giving something that always been a thing a new, scary name when its used against you. We established 73 pages ago and nobody has argued differently.
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We established that the phrase was coined and popularized on black twitter, by people who were not having it used against them. Go back and have a look.

johnny karate said:
What support was withdrawn?
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Institutional support in the form of a platform and lectern, not to mention a stipend.

johnny karate said:
How was social media or group shaming involved?
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I'm unsure about that. While cancel culture is "generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming," I would not assume that this is an essential part of the definition. Some cancellations come from within the institutions themselves, as when Slate parted ways with Pesca or when Gimlet did the same with Pinnamaneni & Vogt.

johnny karate said:
What parameters determine restraint?
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I pasted in an entire paragraph from Hamline U. about how they balance academic freedom and the felt need not to give offense. I'd say those are the most relevant parameters in this case, and that the university failed to live up to their own stated principles.
 
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El Greco said:
From https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/beckett-waiting-for-godot-canceled
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A Dutch production of the Samuel Beckett play "Waiting for Godot" was canceled because the show's Irish director only allowed men to audition, despite Beckett clearly stating that the cast should be five men.

The play, which features two central male characters Vladimir and Estragon who are joined by other male characters as they wait for someone who never arrives, had been in rehearsals since November.

It was due to be staged at the University of Groningen’s Usva student cultural center in March, but the production was canceled when the venue discovered the casting call had been open to men only.

The venue subsequently informed the production team that the male-only casting call went against the university's inclusivity policy.
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d4m10n said:
Cancel culture isn't real. :)
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How does this qualify as “cancel culture” per the definition that you provided?
 
Graham2001 said:
From the website of 'The Foundation for Individual Rights & Expression', another campus blasphemy case from Minnesota.



But this time both the both the transgressor and 'victim' are members of what the Woke call the 'Muslim Race'.


The cause, the means used to support the Iranian Protests, the result, artworks covered by black curtains so that none may see them and be harmed by the sight.


Again this is probably more 'Censorship Culture', but I thought it worth mentioning.






https://www.thefire.org/news/yet-an...a-macalester-college-covers-iranian-americans
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Who or what was “cancelled” here?
 
johnny karate said:
What support was withdrawn? How was social media or group shaming involved?

You must have missed the part where I requested that you be specific. Generic, nebulous and self-serving platitudes do not meet that requirement. What parameters determine restraint? Who is establishing those parameters?
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Added to that for you :D
 
d4m10n said:
Institutional support in the form of a platform and lectern, not to mention a stipend.
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Meaning simply that the professor didn’t have their contract renewed. There was no widespread withdrawal of support. If anything, the professor gained support from this incident. Agreed?

I'm unsure about that. While cancel culture is "generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming," I would not assume that this is an essential part of the definition. Some cancellations come from within the institutions themselves, as when Slate parted ways with Pesca or when Gimlet did the same with Pinnamaneni & Vogt.
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So just the mere act of losing a job can be “cancel culture” absent any other associated characteristics, correct?

I pasted in an entire paragraph from Hamline U. about how they balance academic freedom and the felt need not to give offense. I'd say those are the most relevant parameters in this case, and that the university failed to live up to their own stated principles.
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So you agree that private businesses and institutions should be allowed to set their own standards (within the law) and as long as those standards (or any laws) are not violated, it really shouldn’t be anyone else’s concern how they handle these matters, correct?
 
johnny karate said:
Meaning simply that the professor didn’t have their contract renewed. There was no widespread withdrawal of support. If anything, the professor gained support from this incident.
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"Muslim students...demanded that officials take action," and the officials subsequently dropped the professor. Was this withdrawal of support widespread? I'm not sure why that should matter at this point.

johnny karate said:
So you agree that private businesses and institutions should be allowed to set their own standards (within the law) and as long as those standards (or any laws) are not violated, it really shouldn’t be anyone else’s concern how they handle these matters, correct?
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Nope. I think it is just fine for us to discuss such matters on a discussion board.

johnny karate said:
How is that “cancel culture”?
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How is it cancel culture to welcome the cancellation of a stage play? Let's go through it step-by-step.

1) Withdrawing support: People hoping to get the production of the play cancelled.

2) Public figure: That would be the playwright in this case, possibly along with his enablers.

3) Something considered offensive: Creating a stage play with only male actors.
 
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