Election Day!

[Walter Wayne]

What's the deal on the NDP?

Or the BQ, for that matter.

CBC political summary. NDP at the end, BQ at the beginning.

Walt

 

[Orwell]

Goodbye Liberals!

The Conservatives won the election!

(or, are going to win the election, but same thing)

Minority government, thank Vishnu! The reformatories will have to govern at the centre if they want to last more than a couple of months.

I predict we're going to be back at this soon...

 

[Orwell]

Of the part leaders, Giles is the least offensive of the bunch. You could vote for him without holding your nose.

Not a bad result in the end. Looks like the Conservatives can with the aid of the Bloc get some fiscal conservatism going, maybe some decentralizing as well. My fear is that many of the people are, as some people put it, "giving the Liberals a break" as punishment. Which means they may get back in without any real change to the party in four years.

Walt

Paul Martin will be gone. That's good news.

 

[Orwell]

The independent MP is a guy called André Arthur: he's a semi-fascistic loud-mouth with a trash radio show, essentially a talking rubbish bin. Imagine a Quebecois Don Cherry. Circuses need clowns, eh?

 

[Orwell]

Not a bad result in the end. Looks like the Conservatives can with the aid of the Bloc get some fiscal conservatism going, maybe some decentralizing as well. My fear is that many of the people are, as some people put it, "giving the Liberals a break" as punishment. Which means they may get back in without any real change to the party in four years.

Walt

The Bloc is a left leaning party (Duceppe is an ex-trade union negotiator). I very much doubt they will go along hand in hand with the conservatives...

 

[peptoabysmal]

We vote on Tuesdays because otherwise too many voters would be voting with hangovers.

Although I suspect the founders wanted to let Sunday's sermon wear off a bit before people voted. Sneaky deists!

Pretty close. In the horse-and-buggy days most people had to travel a day to get to the county seat where polling took place. If voting took place on Monday, they would have to leave Sunday, which was reserved for church.

Now... somebody, hurry over to Snopes and find out if this is an urban legend!

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Hah, so there is still a leftist majority, nyah.

Still, Harper and the Conservatives creep me out. It's the darn Mulroney Conservatives that brought in the GST...it's rather sickening that they offer to reduce it now that the Liberals have brought us into some economic prosperity.

 

[Walter Wayne]

Oddly enough I associate the current conservative party less with Mulroney than with Stockwell Day (evil incarnate). I feel somewhat safe because I don't think they have a hope in hell of pushing their social agenda, and their economic agenda will be transformed.

Seems like a low point in canadian politics to me. Conservatives pushing an expensive budget, NDP haven't learned anything, and the liberals no they'll be back in 4 years whether they improve themselves or not.

Politicians like to make things just good enough that people do punish them, them push that lie as best they can for their benefit. Liberals stepped over the line, but I think they will get just enough on the good side again to be popular.

Walt

 

[Badger]

Let me be the first to ask:

What the frig is with Torontonians? Is there something in the water that causes them to be lame of brain? (ya, I know, generalization, western knee-jerk reactionary statement) I just wonder how they can enjoy being lied to and stolen from so much.

And re-electing Stronach? What? WHAT??!!

On that note, how do you like the sound of Prime Minister Stronach? With Martin quitting last night, I betcha she'll get the nod, and will become the 23rd prime minister of Canada.

Gah!

 

[Molinaro]

I think many in the Toronto area see Harper as someone who will push an anti-gay, pro-religion agenda. That kind of thinking does not go over well here.

No, I didn't vote liberal!

 

[Segnosaur]

Still, Harper and the Conservatives creep me out. It's the darn Mulroney Conservatives that brought in the GST...it's rather sickening that they offer to reduce it now that the Liberals have brought us into some economic prosperity.

At the time it was brought in, the GST was seen as a necessary evil. It replaced a series of rather complex and confusing manufacturing taxes, and helped prevent Canada from being at a disadvantage in international trade. If you want to criticize ANYONE, why don't you pick on the Liberals, who said they'd get rid of the tax, but then changed their mind once they got into office? At least the conservatives are being responsible with their GST promise.

As for our 'economic prosperity', keep in mind that the entire global economy is strong right now and has been for much of the past decade. Plus, the initial free trade deal (which has helped improve our export situation) was actually negotiated by the Conservatives under Mulroney. Those factors have more to do with our economic success than anything the Liberals have done. (A brain-damaged chimp as P.M. could have given a good economic performance if they were in charge.)

 

[Segnosaur]

Seems like a low point in canadian politics to me. Conservatives pushing an expensive budget, NDP haven't learned anything, and the liberals no they'll be back in 4 years whether they improve themselves or not.

The conservatives may have had 'expensive' proposals, but much of it involved tax cuts/credits. I would prefer that type of promise over the Liberal's proposals involving direct government spending.

As for the Liberals 'being back', personally I'm not sure. Remember, the Liberals have to actually find a leader, and it may be a while to sort out all the Chretien/Martin conflicts in the party. Plus, the majority of the Liberal's electioneering has been based on portraying Harper as the 'evil' unknown. Now that they're in power, there's a pretty good chance that people will see the conservatives aren't quite the negative force they were imagined to be. (And who knows what additional hidden scandals the conservatives may find.)

We COULD be looking at a minority followed by a conservative majority before the Liberals manage to regroup.

 

[KelvinG]

We COULD be looking at a minority followed by a conservative majority before the Liberals manage to regroup.

Highly unlikely in my opinion. The sole reason the Conservatives were elected last night was because of the fallout from Gomrey.
And even then, the Liberal showing last night was pretty impressive for a party that could have been devastated by the scandal.

Once a new leader is in place, and they efficiently wash themselves clean of the stench left by Martin and his cronies, Canada will get back on track and usher out a regressive party like the Conservatives. This is just a little bump in the road that Canada will have to endure for a brief while.

 

[Badger]

I think many in the Toronto area see Harper as someone who will push an anti-gay, pro-religion agenda. That kind of thinking does not go over well here.

No, I didn't vote liberal!

That's what I mean. They believe the liberal innuendo campaign.

Let me state again. They BELIEVE the liberals, who have lied, and stolen repeatedly. There was the GST removal promise, the HDRC scandal, the gun registry overbudget, as well as the other previously mentioned issues. WTF?? Of course, this editorial goes a long way towards explaining things to me.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Warmington_Joe/2006/01/24/1408486.html

Segnosaur, I agree with you.

 

[Orwell]

So Badger... Harper and co. aren't trying to push a socially conservative agenda?

They sure have sounded like it in the past! Yes, the Liberals have demonised the reformatories. Yeah, liberals exaggerate, but exaggerating means that there's something there, and that their accusations have a footing in reality. A pretty big footing, actually, I believe.

I'm pretty sure that the reformatories would push for a socially conservative agenda if they could get away with it. The deal is, they know most Canadians won't go along with it. That's why Harper has so carefully controlled the things said by the members of his party. He didn't want a repeat of the preceding elections, were liberals demonised tories, and a number of tories decided to prove the liberals right by opening their big bigoted traps.

 

[Segnosaur]

Highly unlikely in my opinion. The sole reason the Conservatives were elected last night was because of the fallout from Gomrey.
And even then, the Liberal showing last night was pretty impressive for a party that could have been devastated by the scandal.

But much of the reason for the Liberal showing was likely due to Martin's last minute negative campaigning (bringing things like abortion up, which were issues that Harper made clear were not on the conservative agenda.) The Liberals won the last election (and got a good showing in this election) based on misinformation.

How do you think Canadians will react if, after being convinced that Harper was the devil, end up realizing that his policies aren't that bad after all?

Oh, and you're assuming Gomery was the only thing Canadians didn't like about the Liberals.

 

[Badger]

So Badger... Harper and co. aren't trying to push a socially conservative agenda?

They sure have sounded like it in the past! Yes, the Liberals have demonised the reformatories. Yeah, liberals exaggerate, but exaggerating means that there's something there, and that their accusations have a footing in reality. A pretty big footing, actually, I believe.

I'm pretty sure that the reformatories would push for a socially conservative agenda if they could get away with it. The deal is, they know most Canadians won't go along with it. That's why Harper has so carefully controlled the things said by the members of his party. He didn't want a repeat of the preceding elections, were liberals demonised tories, and a number of tories decided to prove the liberals right by opening their big bigoted traps.

Thus the name, Conservative.

But, they have bigger fish to fry before they get to that. And frankly I don't see what's wrong with free votes in parlaiment on those issues, anyway. I see it as an improvement over the Liberal totalitarian approach (toe the party line or you're out).

You mention "most Canadians". I've seen surveys that indicate just the opposite. Statistics can be made to say whatever one wants them to, I guess.

I find it sad that the Liberals had to base their campaign on, as you state, demonizing the Tories. Some platform. Some vision of the future of the country. But, people bought it. I find that seriously disheartening.

Yes, Harper controlled his nominees. And I think that shows that he CAN control his party. Bathed in being demonized, he and his party managed to remain calm and focused. I don't see that as a bad thing.

 

[Jas]

Highly unlikely in my opinion. The sole reason the Conservatives were elected last night was because of the fallout from Gomrey.

Yeah, because the "I [heart] Chretien" t-shirts were such big sellers here a few years back.

And even then, the Liberal showing last night was pretty impressive for a party that could have been devastated by the scandal.

Relying on stupidity, fear mongering, and what is clearly some sort of collective blow to the head in Ontario resulting in memory loss, equals impressive?

I think it's about the saddest thing I've ever seen.

 

[Orwell]

Conservative doesn't necessarily imply "social conservative", hence the term "fiscal conservative". Badger seems to be very impressed that Harper managed to control his party's loonies, and then he complains about liberal totalitarianism...

Frankly, I don't think the Tories are any more endowed with "vision" than the liberals. They both want to rule, and they will both do whatever it takes: silencing people, demonising adversaries if necessary, changing principles, saying whatever is needed... But we don't call that hypocrisy, no, we call it "pragmatism"...

 

[Orwell]

Oh, and even if you have a damn free vote on the gay rights question: big whoop. Unless Harper wants to invoke the derogatory clause, he can't do anything about it. And there's a pretty good chance he would loose that vote anyway.