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Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

Not entirely sure what Google shows over there, tbh.

Though I'm now also not sure what would you define as "cancel culture." At the end of the day that's what it boils down to: some numpties are whining about how X is a horrible person because he/she/it disagrees with them. Or as in this case just isn't interested in validating their pet peeve. Usually without any kind of success when it comes to cancelling them (especially when it comes to a self-employed streamer, WHO would fire him?:p) But just because a bully isn't actually successful in silencing someone, doesn't mean that the intent wasn't there.
 
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Also,

What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.
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Yeah, I can see why the braying gang tell themselves that. In practice most of the time it just means inventing some imaginary injustice and perpetrator to bark at, just to fit in with the popular gang.

Sorry, when it degenerated into whining about how transphobic it is if someone DOESN'T actually take a side, or just wants to play a video game instead of doing the political posturing based on degrees of association, I'm hard pressed to see how it's about making the world a better place. On the contrary, it's just some petty and mean people finding some acceptable excuse to be mean.

And I'm not even convinced that the political side is a pre-requisite for some. They just need an acceptable and safe excuse to manifest their pettiness and hostility. I have no doubt that a lot of those would bark just as happily at any other acceptable designated target. Like, if they happened to be in Vienna in November '38 instead of wherever they are in 2003, they'd just as happily try to fit in by being at the front of the gang throwing stones at the acceptable group to hate. And that group wouldn't be the nazis, shall we say :p
 
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HansMustermann said:
Yeah, I can see why the braying gang tell themselves that. In practice most of the time it just means inventing some imaginary injustice and perpetrator to bark at, just to fit in with the popular gang.
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Your so-called "braying gang" are just a tiny, minuscule minority.

HansMustermann said:
Sorry, when it degenerated into whining about how transphobic it is if someone DOESN'T actually take a side, or just wants to play a video game instead of doing the political posturing based on degrees of association, I'm hard pressed to see how it's about making the world a better place. On the contrary, it's just some petty and mean people finding some acceptable excuse to be mean.
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I honestly don't know where you are getting all this crap from. I know plenty of people who think like me, and exactly none of them meet anything even close to this description


HansMustermann said:
And I'm not even convinced that the political side is a pre-requisite for some. They just need an acceptable and safe excuse to manifest their pettiness and hostility. I have no doubt that a lot of those would bark just as happily at any other acceptable designated target. Like, if they happened to be in Vienna in November '38 instead of wherever they are in 2003, they'd just as happily try to fit in by being at the front of the gang throwing stones at the acceptable group to hate. And that group wouldn't be the nazis, shall we say :p
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"Cancel culture" and "Woke" (as a pejorative) are terms that almost exclusively belong to the political right. They are used by them to whine and moan about criticism of their own kind. You only have to look at the people who screech "Cancel Culture!!!" and "WOKE!!!" at the tops of their voices claiming the demise of Mr Potatohead or Dr Seuss or any of a dozen subjects of right-wing political culture wars, or every time they or one of their own is criticized for being a racist, a misogynist or a homophobe. ...... Ron DeSantis, Kevin Spineless, Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Traitor-Green, Greg Abbot, Ron Paul, Kaylee McEnany, Paul Gosar, Ron Johnson, Marsha Blackburn, Lauren Bobblehead, Nikki Haley, Steve Bannon, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Don Jr, Eric Trump et al.. and The Fat Orange Turd himself, all alt-right/far-right conservatives.

Over here on the left, we call it "Accountability Culture", a far more accurate term to describe what is actually happening.
 
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Just saying, I'm sure those throwing stones in November '38 were also telling themselves they're just enforcing accountability. In fact, that was the whole pretext for that night :p

That said, well, I suppose it's possible that only a minority are extreme nutcases. But it's a bit hard to tell, because then that minority is extremely vocal. The rational majority, if it actually exists, seems to be drowned by this kind of cancel gang:

https://ukdaily.news/glasgow/line-b...-near-behead-terfs-sign-at-protest-60033.html

No, that's not photoshopped. They actually carried signs calling to decapitate feminists. You know, speaking of cancel culture. It doesn't get more "cancel" than that.

I'm sure that passes for moderate and normal tone of discussion... in Taliban circles :p
 
I haven't seen many demanding to cancel someone for doing a bad job on the job. (Even though you'd think someone who isn't even in the same company isn't perhaps informed enough to judge that either.) I do see however a lot of cases of trying to cancel someone simply for holding different political opinions than those of the screaming mob.

E.g., you'd think that if J. K. Rowling is doing such a bad job at her job -- which is writing novels -- she'd just sell less books, no? Or if the developers of the Hogwarts Legacy game are doing a bad job at their job -- which is programming a game -- they'll just get less sales, no? Or if Gronkh were that bad at his job -- which is being a video game streamer -- you'd think he'd just lose subscribers.

I fail to see how it's even the job of a screaming mob to decide whether either should be canceled or not, nor how are they even qualified to decide if a game that's not even released yet is badly done. Not any more than when it's the islamist mob trying to cancel Hebdo.

But anyway, yes, that kind of trying to use a mob for intimidation instead of letting the market or democracy run its course, quite literally IS the kind of tactics that were used by the Nazis. It's not a slur, it's just historically what the whole point of the brown shirts was.

The NORMAL way things are supposed to run in a democracy and rule of the law setup is: if you don't like something, you write your congressperson/mp/whatever to change the law. Not the least so anyone can know in advance if they're allowed to do something or not. Trying to replace that with whatever one particular mob is braying against at the moment, is just not it. Nor is it about "accountability", other than in the delusional rationalizations of those in such mobs.
 
If you haven't seen any requests for, say, a University President to step down because she chose to take an action which made her University look bad, then you haven't been reading the last 5 or so pages of the thread.

So we have: hyperbolic comparisons between Taliban beheadings and people on twitter expressing a dislike of someone's actions: check

Calling people who choose not to give a celebrity money because of that celebrity's actions Nazis: check

Complete unfamiliarity with the subject one is lobbing such grenades at: check
 
wareyin said:
If you haven't seen any requests for, say, a University President to step down because she chose to take an action which made her University look bad, then you haven't been reading the last 5 or so pages of the thread.
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Why exactly is sensitivity to devout Muslims a bad look?
 
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d4m10n said:
Do you think it's okay to try to get people fired for *checks notes* doing their job?
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I'm not sure why you think asking for my opinion is a valid response to being asked to explain yours. On its face, it seems to be nothing more than a dodge.
 
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d4m10n said:
He asked for an "objective basis" for calling something "wrong." Would you rather call that metaethics?
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I'd call it "asking someone to provide a rational basis for their opinion". Calling something "unfair" or "immoral" is easy. Ignorant and dishonest people do it all the time. Providing a rationale for those claims seems to be a little more difficult.
 
HansMustermann said:
Well, here's something that I'm hard pressed to find anything "good" about, in any school of ethics philosophy: recently one of the biggest names in streaming in Germany caused an internet $#°& storm from the local chapter of the wailing woke wankers (yeah, it's spreading like disease outside of the USA too), like he was personally murdering the trans or something. Try to guess what heinous statement he made to cause that reaction.

Actually all he said was that he's not interested in J. K. Rowling either way, he just plays games. That's it. He just didn't want his channel to be about the political posturing around Hogwarts Legacy. Note that he wasn't even streaming playing it or anything, since it's not out yet. Just didn't want that flame war on his channel.

So... yeah... while it's fun to pretend it only happens to actual nazis or whatnot, we've apparently moved well past that point. Nowadays even just not being actively on their side is enough to get the brainless braying buffoon brigade to do their thing. You don't even have to be actively against them. Just not being on their side already makes you the enemy.

I'm sorry, but this is just about as much about either "morality" or "accountability" as it was when the brown shirts were doing the same schtick more up-close and personal in the 30's. Because yeah, THAT was the last time around here that a political side tried to use the mob and intimidation to silence everyone else. The only difference is that now everyone can do it on the internet, from the safety of their mom's basement.


And yes, I know, freedom of speech, people just expressing their opinion, can't stop them, etc. Sure, but then it goes both ways. I'm also free to have a very low opinion of them.

At this point, let's just say, if an flat-earther in a MAGA hat and one of these 'woke' activists were drowning and I couldn't save more than one... well, I'd probably let them both drown. But if I HAD to, I'd probably save the former. Those seem to be actually less likely to try to ruin your life for just not taking either side. If you told one of those "dude, the only planet whose shape I'm interested in is Azeroth, and the only immigration I deal with is Night Elves running straight to Stormwind like someone made an Islamic state in their own country :p" (the World Of Warcraft) they wouldn't take it as your being some kind of short-stache goose-stepping card-carrying literal nazi to save the world from.
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I always find these source-free, dramatized accounts told with an obvious bias so informative.
 
Stout said:
Whoa! A typo! Good catch, I feel duly chastised and embarrassed. While we're on the topic of corrections Staddon was talking about biological sex, actual real world facts on the ground stuff, not this feelz before reelz gender stuff some people are so enamored with.
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:rolleyes:
 
johnny karate said:
I always find these source-free, dramatized accounts told with an obvious bias so informative.
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Considering that I gave sources, quotes and translations in message #2839... yeah, keep telling yourself it's just some fake news, by someone with an obvious bias. We wouldn't want reality leaking intp your echo chamber, would we? Reality is complex and depressing after all. Loser puppies only listening to and getting their validation from other puppies reassuring each other that, verily, the postman is some evil monster and they saved the world by barking at him, is much more of a comforting delusion, isn't it? :p
 
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johnny karate said:
And also the Inquisition and McCarthyism and probably the bubonic plague.
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Ya know, I'm not even against a bit of snark AFTER you've properly made and supported your point. Not INSTEAD of. It just being a comfort blanket to dismiss everything that challenges your rationalizations and generally avoid using your brain is still, at the end of the brain, exactly the kind of not using your brain that is my problem in the first place :p
 
HansMustermann said:
Well, here's something that I'm hard pressed to find anything "good" about, in any school of ethics philosophy: recently one of the biggest names in streaming in Germany caused an internet $#°& storm from the local chapter of the wailing woke wankers (yeah, it's spreading like disease outside of the USA too), like he was personally murdering the trans or something. Try to guess what heinous statement he made to cause that reaction.

Actually all he said was that he's not interested in J. K. Rowling either way, he just plays games. That's it. He just didn't want his channel to be about the political posturing around Hogwarts Legacy. Note that he wasn't even streaming playing it or anything, since it's not out yet. Just didn't want that flame war on his channel.
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Gronkh should have known that trying to remain neutral would bring the full force of the tranninsh inquisition down on him. He couldn't have not known. I knew it and I don't even play games. The whole trans thing revolves around that thought terminating cliché...you are either with us, or against us. There's been all sorts of weirdness around this game as the woke try to reconcile their desire to remain in the Potter universe by playing this game with justifications like only play a pirated copy, or play it, but don't talk about it. It's rather hilarious like buying those Potter books from that Toronto bookseller who rebinds copies of the book with Rowling's name removed.

I suppose a streamer could hate play it, make all sorts of anti-Rowling comments while whifflpilfering the wafflesnuffers, or whatever you do in that game but we've seen enough examples to prove that cancel culture, like cancer, can be beaten.
 
Well, sure. Sorta in the same way it would have been obvious to everyone that saying you're not converting to the Islam would get a bunch of the Islamists butthurt.

Still sad to see it play out though. I mean, compare the two:

1. Islamists march with signs asking to behead some guy who was disagreeing with them. A whole bunch of imams and whatnot, don't just pay lip respect to "no, see, it's actually a religion of peace", but actually condemn it.

And not just some lukewarm secular guys living in America. There were actually respected Islamic scholars in Egypt and whatnot condemning, say, the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, and saying that's not the intended use of a fatwa. Or looking for Quran-conform loopholes to allow women to work, when the Taliban deny that. Like, actually saying, effectively, "no, those guys are wrong. Don't be like them. It's not supposed to work that way."

2. Some "woke" folks march with signs asking to behead feminists, or even just trying to cancel anyone who's just bought a flippin' video game that's six-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon associated with one, and... the other "woke" gang just handwaves that, yeah, that doesn't count, those were just... going after the wrong targets. But otherwise trying to scare anyone who disagrees into submission is apparently still good. It's "culture of accountability", yo! (Accountability to the screaming mob, that is.)

It's like watching a muslim condemning the attack on Salman Rushdie because... you should ask for the death of the guy who burned a Quran in Sweden instead. Focus on the priority targets, yo! Not exactly convincing that it's not an extremist anti-democratic movement, is all I'm saying.
 
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The staggering lack of self-awareness, and overwhelming sense of entitlement it stems from, in the anti-woke is never not hilarious. Case in point...

HansMustermann said:
The NORMAL way things are supposed to run in a democracy and rule of the law setup is: if you don't like something, you write your congressperson/mp/whatever to change the law. Not the least so anyone can know in advance if they're allowed to do something or not. Trying to replace that with whatever one particular mob is braying against at the moment, is just not it.
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Utterly bankrupt comparisons to the Nazis aside, this line of reasoning would mean that you're writing your congressperson to the law changed to stop people from being 'cancelled', right? Not that I support the idea that people should be legally limited in their ability to advocate that others not support a product or personality, but by your argument that's what you'd need to do.

If, you know, you applied the same standards to your own words and actions as you do to the evil 'woke nazis'. You don't because you feel entitled to the same powers you deride others for exercising. It isn't the actions you are opposed to, it's who is doing them and what they target. It's exactly that you disagree with them that you think they shouldn't have the same recourse you do. You're doing what they are, but your arguments shouldn't apply to you?

There really isn't any way around how laughably hypocritical your suggestions are and anything to the contrary are unambiguously,

delusional rationalizations
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