Ahhh, I see you're blind - whether through ignorance or deliberate misdirection - to the views of the (plenty of) extremist bigots in this thread who refer to transwomen (always transwomen, rather than transmen...) as "men LARPing" or "men cosplaying" (and plenty of variants thereof, many of which clearly imply that transgender identity is a mental illness).
You've moved the goalpost. You made multiple claims. One of the claims was that people were denying the
existence of trans people. If someone claims trans people are just "men cosplaying", well, that's a matter of the
nature of trans people, and you can argue that this claim is wrong, but one thing it isn't is a claim that trans people don't exist. So your claim that anyone here has denied the
existence of trans people is just wrong.
Because, you see, that is a fundamental denial of the validity of transgender identity.
But "validity" and "existence" aren't the same thing. And "validity" is just a bull **** term you invented for this discussion.
And once again, for the slow/denialist children at the back, "valid" in this context means that transgender identity is not now considered by mainstream medicine to be a mental health disorder. I've already pointed this out several times, so I'm surprised you haven't yet caught on*.
Oh, I've caught on. And I've pointed out multiple times (and you've never responded) that gender dysphoria very much IS still categorized as a mental health disorder. Furthermore, "transgender identity" in the absence of gender dysphoria is basically meaningless. It is, in fact, indistinguishable from "men LARPing". You may find that offensive, but you have no counter-argument to it.
Furthermore, if a man is just cosplaying as a woman, nobody is actually claiming that this is a mental health disorder. That's not the issue. The issue is, why does that deserve any accommodation? And this is one of the glaring inconsistencies in your own position. If a male has no mental health disorder, why does he need to be treated any differently than any other male? Mental health disorders are disabilities, and we as a society try to accommodate disabilities. But we don't have any obligation to accommodate
preferences. Transgender identity in the absence of gender dysphoria is nothing more than a preference.
Erm, it appears to be you who's confused about the meaning of the term "Orwellian". You seem to be labouring under the misconception that it means "opaque and illogical".
Uh, no. "Orwellian" means language that denies reality. Being offensive or bigoted doesn't make something Orwellian. Language that describes ideas that you think are
wrong isn't Orwellian. So TRA, TIM, and TERF, while offensive to some, are not Orwellian. If you want to find Orwellian language in this whole trans debate, you'll find it in expressions like "lady dick".
* Maybe if you take homosexuality as a comparator
You keep trying to force this analogy, but it won't work. Sexuality isn't comparable to transgender identity.
Prior to 1973, mainstream medicine considered homosexuality to be a mental health disorder.
So the "experts" aren't infallible. And it doesn't suffice to appeal to their judgment without arguing for a thing on its own merits.
Then, in 1973, mainstream medicine updated its position, no longer classifying homosexuality as a mental health disorder
Yes.
but instead concluding that it is a valid lived condition.
No. "valid lived condition" is your own bull **** term.
Transgender identity has gone through the exact same process in the expert medical community - from having been considered a mental health disorder, to (present-day) no longer being considered a mental health disorder (by the actual experts) - in other words, it's now considered a valid condition, just as homosexuality is now considered a valid condition.
Again, no. Gender dysphoria is very much still considered a mental disorder, because it obviously is.
And again, for "transgender identity" without dysphoria, that's just a preference, and we are under no obligation to accommodate preferences.
So, in 2023, people who still insist that transgender identity is a mental health disorder, or that transwomen are "LARPing men" and so on,
You treat these positions as if they're basically the same, when in fact they are mutually exclusive when applied to any specific individual. LARPing is a voluntary activity. It is a preference. It is not a disorder. If someone has a disorder (such as gender dysphoria) then they
aren't just LARPing. But gender dysphoria very much is a mental disorder, a fact that you keep ignoring but can't actually deny.
is in the same invidious position as someone in 1975 who continued to insist that homosexuality was a sexual deviancy and a mental health disorder.
Again, no.
The position that gender dysphoria is a mental health disorder, aside from being obviously true, is also basically
required by trans activists themselves. Want hormone treatment or surgery? You can't get insurance coverage for that UNLESS it's to treat a disorder. Categorizing it as a disorder isn't something that's being imposed on trans people against their will, it's something that they
want.
And this is part of the fundamental problem with the comparison. Sexuality demands no accommodation from society. Homosexuals didn't need to demand anything except to be left alone. But that's diametrically opposite to what the TRA's are doing. If all they demanded was to be left alone, we wouldn't have this thread. But they aren't. They're demanding a lot more than that.
(I mean, I know it won't help, on account of your zealous and intransigent views on this topic, but perhaps that gives you a little more context as to the toxic nature of your position).
You can keep calling people toxic and bigoted, but nobody believes your accusations. They ring hollow, because you can't back them up. Your own positions are an incoherent mess of internal contradictions, avoidance, denial, and ad hominems.
