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Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)

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d4m10n said:
I certainly do agree with those who've argued that the laws should protect people from being fired from their jobs for gender nonconformity of any sort. I think most reasonable people (excluding religious devotees) should agree with this as well.
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I strongly disagree. Certain jobs have certain 'looks' or themes. Some identities are distracting for international patrons or for sensitive issues.
But really, all you need to do is look to entertainment, like a movie or play, to see how badly that ideal of 'not firing' would fail. You are hired to play a role or 'look'- just like at Disneyland or any other large entertainment venue.
You change? You get fired.

In my part of the woods, In-n-Out Burger wont have any non conforming genders, or tattoos, or long hair on men, or beards, or purple hair.
Everyone must be "1950's TV" super nice. And they are!
Consistently nice...anywhere you go.

That is their "brand". They are allowed to have their own brand they have marketed for 70 years.
They can fire anyone who doesnt fit the mold they want. It is a theme. Break it, and get fired. Employees choice to conform or not.

I bet I can give 1000 examples of places where going "non conform" affects the company negatively so as to render the job the person was hired for unmanagable or undoable.
 
TomB said:
But how do you write such a law?

Do you encode a maximum bust size?
There are biological women who have had implants put in the size of basketballs. Would they fail the presentation code as well?

It is very hard to write rules for every situation. When the school wrote the dress code, I suspect they never imagined someone taking it to this kind of extreme. Modifying the code afterwards might get into shaky legal territory.

As for sales, that one is easy. If customers are driven away, sales go down which will (legitimately) reflect on performance evaluations and result in termination for non-performance.
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I'm not writing a law. I'm contemplating not writing a law that will make it illegal for an employer to fire someone whose chosen presentation is having an adverse effect on the business. This will obviously depend on the business. Some businesses may be OK with exploding milk bombs. Some may justifiably object to lipstick and eyeliner.
 
theprestige said:
Nike just fired one of their celebrity spokespersons for expressing nonconformist thoughts in public.
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,,,,As happens when the image they hired changes to one they do not want to promote their brand. Contracts may vary but not with Nike. I'm sure they have that 'image' clause locked in.
Are you just giving an example, or do you actually have an issue with people in business making decisions about who fronts their brands?

If Kyrie went transgender, the result could be the same, for that same reason.
 
Dani said:
You got me there.

By the context, I thought you were referring to gender nonconformity.
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Me too.
I had no idea of it either and had to look it up. Thought Kyrie would be a girl. haha.
Even then, all the recent news was 'good', as in stellar sports performance. So I added "nazi' and results went back a few months.
 
It would fit better in the "cancel culture" thread. I'm sorry if I don't see the connection to transgender issues. If there is a connection, why don't you explain our blind spot rather than throwing a hissy fit?
 
I have zero idea what this is all about. I only know that Kyrie eleison means "Lord have mercy" because I just spent an hour and a half singing it. I also have a feeling that Kyrie is the word used in Greek where we use "Mr".

I was hoping someone might explain.
 
Sounds like Kyrie went full Kanye.

To make the connection for those that don't get it...

The preceding post, Sherkeu was talking aput:
I bet I can give 1000 examples of places where going "non conform" affects the company negatively so as to render the job the person was hired for unmanagable or undoable.
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In response to Damien talking about not being able to fire someone for gender non-conformity.

thePrestige and Sherkeu make good points that there are situations where conformity to an image is a key part of the job.
 
Rolfe said:
I still have no idea at all what you are talking about.
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Kyrie Irving, and American basketball player had a signature shoe line through Nike. They just terminated the contract early, due to his apparent endorsement on social media of an film (and book) that contains anti-Semitic material. I'm not familiar with the film but it's called "Hebrews to Negroes: Wake Up Black America."

The point is that things you do that change or alter your image legitimately affect your employment.

Imagine if Revlon's "Cover Girl" model transitioned to a trans-man. The image has changed so that that person would no longer fit as spokesmodel for the makeup line. That's one parallel.

It goes along the line of what Sherkeu was saying.
 
Thank you. I had absolutely no idea who this "Kyrie" person was, and merely responded to Sherkeu's comment that she thought it was a girl's name by pointing out the masculine meaning.

I think this is something that should be left to individual contracts of employment. I don't think a law prohibiting employers from dismissing employees because of their "gender expression" should be passed.
 
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Your midnight check-in on the petition reports 73,343 signatures, so 385 new signatures today. Still ticking along nicely.

The new magic number is 302.9.
 
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