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Split Thread Conspiracy theories about unconventional usage of notation

Oh boy. You're so, so far out of your depth. Not to mention lying and misrepresenting. For my part, I simply can't be bothered to correct your bollocks for you once again. It's quite something to observe though....
 
Please stop lying about even the most trivial things. You are not the teacher. You are not the mother. You are a conspiracy theorist with delusions of grandeur pretending you can sit in infallible judgment over your betters. It's arrogant and rude. You've made the mistake of doing so in a skeptics forum among people with both the skills and the motivation to test your judgment. You're not really the adult in the room here, so keep your condescension to yourself.



No, it wasn't. I tested your claim. The evidence is against you, as usual. I did find out exactly what caused the glyphs to be rewritten. That's because I was justly chagrined at being unable to reproduce the º-becomes-"" experiment and having to withdraw the claim out of an abundance of fairness. I learned from it and resolved to be more diligent in testing your claims, because I'm interested in being right even if I have to change my mind in order to accommodate new evidence.

The only products that produce that exact pattern of wrong glyphs are Microsoft editors: Word, and the HTML markup editor in the Windows-native Outlook. Copying and pasting do not produce the results you claim. Again you seem to think that no one can find out that you're lying.

Regardless, a "maths PhD" will have considerable experience producing uncommon symbols in writing, as do I, and a desire to be correct as matter of second-nature effort. You get very attuned to when your tools are doing the wrong thing in an effort to "help" you do something else. We don't type ' followed by " to get a triple prime, because it looks wrong and (as you saw) often gets rewritten and therefore is wrong. We type three single quotes, ''', if you can't get the right glyph, ‴.

A lay person, however, would be more inclined to enter the easiest thing to type and—when his editor rewrites it to be more pretty—say, "Meh, good enough." It's not good enough; it's wrong. And you're telling us a highly educated mathematician is okay with that, who also has experience in physics. That's not credible. It's more consistent with a layperson who cobbled up something in a hurry.

At first you told us ″ for minutes of time was a standard, and insinuated that the U.S. must use a stricter standard that confused the issue. Then you said it was accepted in your school, as long as the examiners could tell what you meant from context. Then you said it was only informal usage, although no one from your neck of the woods agrees. And now you're telling us some anonymous person whom you think we should consider an expert is hearsayishy confirming your usage is correct, contrary to the explanations of people whose credentials and experience actually relevant and not in question.

Do you think we can't see that you keep changing your story to make it harder to refute? You're trying to find a bluff that works, not trying to ascertain the truth or prove your claim with testable evidence.



I was speaking of the MS Estonia thread, where you do nothing except challenge the mainstream. To do that, you rely on a palette of incoherent and incompatible conspiracy theories whose only unifying principle is that they dispute the JAIC methods or findings.

But on the topic at hand, you're still challenging the mainstream. I'll let others focus on your misuse of port and starboard. On the point of what ″ means for time, you are fine with the mainstream convention for distance. ′ always means feet and ″ always means inches. The system works because those meanings never change. And you're okay with the mainstream angular measurements. ′ always means arcminutes and ″ always means arcseconds. The system works for this measurement too, because the meanings of the marks never change. You don't have to specify yd or º because ′ and ″ are unambiguous.

Everyone else in the world who knows primes notation for time knows to use ′ for minutes and ″ for seconds. And because it's part of the same system, it works because the meanings of those marks never changes. We have examples where the base unit, h, is omitted, and the meaning remains unambiguous. This is the mainstream, and you're happy with it up to now.

But now you—and only you—tell us that ″ can mean either minutes or seconds of time according your brain-canon of "context." Every real scientist who hears something like that throws up a little inside. You have no evidence for your claim. You have no other examples of ″ meaning minutes. You have no explanation for why this particular application of primes notation—and this one only—is allowed to violate what you concede are rules for disambiguation.

You don't seem to realize that in your haste to pile bluff upon bluff, you're very much admitting to challenging the mainstream. Your first story was that only the U.S. required ″ to mean only seconds of time, and that your usage was, in fact, more mainstream. But then you had to walk that back and say it was a convention that was accepted only at your school, so long as the examiners could tell what you meant. So not mainstream usage, but something understood only at your school. Then you backpedaled even further: you didn't actually use ″ to mean minutes of time for anything you handed in for grading. It was just what you used informally in your notes and such. So even less mainstream. You even insinuate that knowing not to use ″ for minutes in homework meant you knew it wasn't acceptable.

You literally can't keep narrowing the acceptable usage of ″ for minutes without arguing that it's against the mainstream. "I used it informally at school, but we knew it wasn't correct," is as narrow as usage can get. You're literally admitting the mainstream is correct to insist that ″ should mean only seconds, but you are excused for doing it privately while somehow expecting that everyone here should have unmistakably known what you mean. That is literally a challenge to the mainstream in order to safe face.



No. The whole purpose for this thread is your claim that using ″ for minutes of time is not a typo, but is instead something you wrote on purpose, and that you're so much smarter than everyone else for knowing that you could do that. It is that your use of "port" and "starboard" are not mistakes, but correct designations, and everyone else is obtuse for not seeing how.

You're in a forum whose stated purpose is to challenge claims. No one "happens" to post anything. You're either posting something with the expectation that it will be challenged, or you're posting a challenge to something you think isn't right. If you're whining just because people are challenging your claims, you're very much in the wrong place. And especially if you're posting conspiracy theories expecting to be praised for your erudition and integrity instead of mercilessly debunked, you're very much not in the right place.

In this thread we're deliberately focusing on your minor, inconsequential mistakes. We know they're mistakes. Dropping the bluff and admitting you originally made a mistake would actually improve your credibility here, as we measure it. These mistakes really have nothing to do with your major theories in any of the threads you contribute to. Saying, "Oops, I thought ″ could also mean minutes and you can see where I corrected myself," doesn't mean you have to let up pressure on the JAIC.

This is how we determine whether your objection to something is due to your having thought critically about it, or to your just wanting to appear infallible and authoritative. Sticking to your guns on even the most trivial errors and deploying one absurd, incompatible story after another helps us draw a conclusion in your case. And that in turn helps us determine whether claims you make on your own authority should be given credence. They shouldn't; you're just trying to look smart, not actually discover the truth. You're incapable of admitting even tiniest mistake, and therefore utterly impervious to evidence that disputes a belief you hold

And this why we, who are properly qualified and experienced, correctly do not respect you armchair detectives. You, personally, are neither knowledgeable enough or honest enough to adjudicate the investigative work of the JAIC, Meyer Weft, or anyone else investigating a transportation accident.

The fact that you silently dropped the ″ usage and started using the correct ′ for minutes tells us you knew you were wrong, but that you hoped no one would press the issue and require you to admit it. Only later did you start making stuff up to say you were really right all along by using both. You went back and saw that you first used ″ wrongly and then switched to the correct ′ and realized you had to invent a story that accounted for both usages, hence the unscientific invocation of "context." You painted yourself into a corner to begin with, and you just can't stop. You'd rather keep bluffing your way farther into a self-soothing delusion than live in reality where others are smarter and more credible than you.



No, we observe that you think you're the smartest person in the room, and won't let anyone forget that you think so. But you really just aren't smart enough to make the claims you're making on your own authority. You don't know what you're talking about, and you think all your absurd bluffs are working. It's hard to interpret these remarks as anything but an admission that all you're doing here is stroking your own ego.

I'm fully qualified and licensed in my field, and have practiced it successfully now for decades. Your claims here and in the other threads where you and I both participate are well within my field of expertise. I'm very capable of knowing as a matter of fact whether you're right or wrong on any of those points.

But in your fantasy kingdom, I and others must be "insecure," while you crown yourself with crackpot conspiracy theories and pretend you're competent to judge the work of experts. Then you tell lie upon transparent lie to protect your fantasy-kingdom sovereignty, like a child with crumbs on her face claiming that invisible nargles must've raided the cookie jar. But sure, we're the immature ones...

Pathetic.


That is how it appears on WhatsApp.


I am not a conspiracy theorist. Sweden and Estonia and an independent expedition DID revisit the scene last year, a factual event which I reported.


No amount of name calling changes a fact.
 
And I have no problem with people making typos of otherwise having brainfarts, but I do expect acknowledgement of the mistake and acknowledgement of the correct answer.

0.35' is not the same as 35', and neither are equivalent to 35"

In 0.35' I was representing the hour as the ° transcription to the person I was trying to explain it to because I believe he honestly was not aware of primes for time notation. As I said, my bad for confusing people instead of elucidating them. I said it was incorrect a couple of times so you are wrong when you claim I didn't acknowledge it.
 
So you DO believe that the Estonia sank because the poorly-designed and poorly-maintained bow visor broke away in rough seas, causing huge ingress of sea water into the wide open vehicle decks, in turn causing rapid destabilisation, listing, capsizing and sinking?

Because if you eschew that narrative in favour of "ramming submarines", "torpedoes" "bombs" or other fanciful nonsense, then I've got news for you: you are a conspiracy theorist.
 
Here we go with the usual potty mouth expletives.


LOL. Here we go with the usual pious deflections.


Tell me, Vixen (for a laugh):

If we are referring strictly to units of time, what does the term 50" represent?

a) 50 minutes of time

b) 50 seconds of time

c) either 50 minutes of time or 50 seconds of time, "depending on the context"

*drizzles melted butter onto popcorn and sits back in front of Wild Card game*
 
Here's a screen print of the message copied from WhatsApp to gmail. As you can see, the primes have turned themselves facing the wrong way and that is 100% how they show on WhatsApp.

So much for JayUtah accusing me of all kinds of wrongdoing. Let's see if he has the grace to apologise.
 

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You use changing the subject like a security blanket. You're fantasizing and telling yourself a made-up story about how you were the only one who knew about prime notation and the rest of us had to Google it, in order to distract from the actual issue of this thread: that you are wrong to claim " can be used to mean minutes rather than seconds, and you will twist and obfuscate and change the subject, but you absolutely cannot simply admit you are wrong. You are a startlingly unreliable reporter of facts.
 
So you DO believe that the Estonia sank because the poorly-designed and poorly-maintained bow visor broke away in rough seas, causing huge ingress of sea water into the wide open vehicle decks, in turn causing rapid destabilisation, listing, capsizing and sinking?

Because if you eschew that narrative in favour of "ramming submarines", "torpedoes" "bombs" or other fanciful nonsense, then I've got news for you: you are a conspiracy theorist.

Please go to the correct thread where august newspapers such as Aftonbladet and the award-winning Helsingin Sanomat confirm all of these disputed facts between eminent officials.
 
If we are referring strictly to units of time, what does the term 50" represent?

a) 50 minutes of time

b) 50 seconds of time

c) either 50 minutes of time or 50 seconds of time, "depending on the context"

It's d) either 50 minutes of time or 50 seconds of time, depending on what school you went to.
 
Here's a screen print of the message copied from WhatsApp to gmail. As you can see, the primes have turned themselves facing the wrong way and that is 100% how they show on WhatsApp.

So much for JayUtah accusing me of all kinds of wrongdoing. Let's see if he has the grace to apologise.

The graphic is too fuzzy to determine which glyph appears. Nice try, but this doesn't prove anything. If, as I suspect, you cobbled up the original excerpt yourself, there's no reason you can't do it again, paste the results into literally any program (why is copy-pasting into a different program somehow a requirement?), screenshot it, and claim it's some kind of original. You really have no idea what it means to prove a claim.
 
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Oh, look, another thoroughly reasoned, carefully prepared post that Vixen dismisses with a few brief, cherry-picked lines. Hilarious that you ignore all the evidence and reasoning and then whine that you're being falsely accused.

That is how it appears on WhatsApp.

No. When you type the single quote into WhatsApp, you get the IEC 8859 single-quote, not the typographical open-single-quote glyph that appears in your alleged excerpt. When you type the double-quote into WhatsApp, you get the IEC 8859 double-quote, not the combination of typographical open-double- and close-double-quote glyphs. To get the typographical quote glyphs in WhatsApp, you either have to know the key sequence for your operating system to get them, or you have to copy-paste them from a document in which they appear. When you copy-paste IEC 8859 text from WhatsApp, the characters are unaltered.

The message you're presenting was obviously composed in a smart Microsoft editor that recasts the glyphs algorithmically as you type into the typographical equivalents of the basic characters. You want us to believe that a mathematician who, like the rest of us, has been battling this annoying and incorrect rewriting for years, is okay with it.

Just stop lying, Vixen. You're simply not smart enough to get away with it.

I am not a conspiracy theorist.

You are a huge conspiracy theorist. There is no part of the definition of a conspiracy theorist that does not apply to you.

Sweden and Estonia and an independent expedition DID revisit the scene last year, a factual event which I reported.

Yes, you reported that fact. And you also reported practically every conspiracy theory on the subject of MS Estonia, including those clearly intended as parody and those arising from obvious crackpots.
 
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In 0.35' I was representing the hour as the ° transcription to the person I was trying to explain it to because I believe he honestly was not aware of primes for time notation.

Word salad. None of this makes the slightest sense.

As I said, my bad for confusing people instead of elucidating them.

You confused people because you don't know what you're talking about and you don't know the proper usage of the notation and symbols.

Now finally, at long last, just admit that you mistakenly used ″ to indicate minutes of time, that you corrected yourself in later posts, and that your initial usage was an error and not some arcane backwater of the relevant standard.
 
The 0.35' was an attempt to conform to the demand that the first prime should be transcribed as zero (the hour) and the minute the first prime.

Gobbledygook.

This was because people claimed they couldn't understand how 35 could be a double prime and the hour a single one.

They didn't understand your intent because you were using the notation incorrectly. Adding a decimal symbol, also used incorrectly, doesn't fix that.

Far from making it clearer, it caused Heap Big Confusion.

Because you don't know what you're talking about, and you're bluffing incessantly and incoherently. Trying to blame other people for being obtuse when it's you who's faking it badly is pretty dishonest.

0'35" would be the unconventional way in the same way 0'6" is unconventional for height or length.

No, those are perfectly conventional.

On realising that primes were indeed used for time, rather than admit I was right, the detractors tried to claim they knew this all along but the fault lay with me because all they could find on google...

No. Those of us who know primes notation couldn't figure out what you were trying to say because you were using it wrong.

They turned to JayUtah who dashed their hopes by confirming primes for time did exist but as someone who only ever used them for rowing duration had no further knowledge.

Lies upon lies. I said that was the first time I had encountered them. You forgot the part where I taught engineering candidates preparing for their licensing exams, which include rigorous studies of units and symbols to represent them. And my preparations to teach them included the history and derivation of primes notation. And as a matter of fact, we don't use them anymore. We don't teach them. We don't accept them in proper publications except for geographical coordinates. That doesn't mean experts don't know about them. And it certainly doesn't mean we can't know you're using them wrong.

You are not the smartest person in the room, Vixen. You tried to be clever, it backfired, and now you can't back down because it's all about ego for you.

All this to cover the back of one person who tried to disingenuously claim it referred to the depth of the sea.

No, they were laughing at you because you were using the notation incorrectly, and your incorrect usage instead conveyed most plainly a measurement of distance.

You were wrong, Vixen. All your narcissistic gymnastics trying to show that you were still somehow right and still somehow the teacher are nauseating.
 
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I'm gonna try something.

This is like debating with someone who claims Paris is not the capital of France.

Vixen, I am now claiming that Paris is not the capital of France. How would you go about showing that I am mistaken? I actually want you to do this. Take your best shot.

Note to others: I am asking Vixen to prove me wrong, not anyone else.
 
In 0.35' I was representing the hour as the ° transcription to the person I was trying to explain it to because I believe he honestly was not aware of primes for time notation. As I said, my bad for confusing people instead of elucidating them. I said it was incorrect a couple of times so you are wrong when you claim I didn't acknowledge it.

Are you saying that you were using the decimal point was to represent a degree symbol?
 
0'35" would be the unconventional way in the same way 0'6" is unconventional for height or length.

That would depend what you meant when you write 0'6".

Did you mean 0 feet 6 inches? In which case, it would not be the same, since it it is legitimate, if unnecessary, to give the feet. 0'35", if analogous, would mean 0 minutes and 35 seconds. However, that's not what you claimed you meant by 0'35".

Did you mean 0 yards and 6 feet? That would be consistent with your claimed usage of 0'35" to mean 0 hours and 35 minutes. It would also be equally as wrong.
 
I'm gonna try something.



Vixen, I am now claiming that Paris is not the capital of France. How would you go about showing that I am mistaken? I actually want you to do this. Take your best shot.

Note to others: I am asking Vixen to prove me wrong, not anyone else.

Look, if you make a post in passing stating that, say, Lyon is a capital city, I am sure I would definitely correct you. However, I wouldn't hound you to apologise to me over five pages. If you told me that Lyon is the capital of your region and that is what you meant (let's assume that it actually is as a matter of fact, or once was, historically). I would just concede that you know better than me in that instance, and thanks for the explanation, not get all upset because your knowledge was superior to mine.
 
That would depend what you meant when you write 0'6".

Did you mean 0 feet 6 inches? In which case, it would not be the same, since it it is legitimate, if unnecessary, to give the feet. 0'35", if analogous, would mean 0 minutes and 35 seconds. However, that's not what you claimed you meant by 0'35".

Did you mean 0 yards and 6 feet? That would be consistent with your claimed usage of 0'35" to mean 0 hours and 35 minutes. It would also be equally as wrong.

You know fully well from common repetition that I was referring to thirty-five minutes.

In a post on a chat forum I assumed people understood it took thirty-five minutes to sink the particular vessel referred to below the surface of the water. Thirty-five minutes being the second derivative of the usual - and much more normal - number of hours it takes a ship to sink below the surface of the water. The speed of a ship sinking from view is generally measured in hours. Thus, the first derivative in expressing a ship sinking is the hour, f'.
 
My infinite group of monkeys have been hard at work on their typewriters but report that so far they can find no form of words in which using 35" to mean 35 minutes isn't wrong.
 

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