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Merged Musk buys Twitter!/ Elon Musk puts Twitter deal on hold....

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Darat said:
Has he? Look at his other stuff - the solar roof tiles and his robots come to mind. Never mind the big stuff like the Boring company.
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I didn't say they were all winners. But enough have been. It's hard to pull that kind of thing off even once.

“I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, being rather cleverer than others, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger.” — Albus Dumbledore
 
jeremyp said:
I'll take that bet. I say he is not the majority owner of Tesla now.

I win.

https://capital.com/tesla-shareholder-who-owns-the-most-tsla-stock
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Well technically I didn't lose, unless Musk controls over 50% by 1/1/24. :D

I just assumed he had a controlling share since there doesn't seem to be a board or anything that gets in the way of Elon doing whatever it he wants. This article spells out how he keeps control though:

Activist gadfly James McRitchie has submitted shareholder proposals in 2014 and 2016 to do away with Tesla's supermajority voting rules. In an interview, he notes that currently insiders -mostly Musk -- control about 25.5% of Tesla's shares and as a result, without Musk's support, a minimum of 89.5% of outside shares must vote to approve key changes -- an incredibly high hurdle.

https://www.thestreet.com/investing...ols-tesla-with-only-a-minority-stake-14564491

ETA: and I just saw your reply about Tesla not going with cheaper models, but rather the truck and new roadster. In the EU, which is obviously a huge market for small EV's, their Model 3 is their goto. But per this article VW is delivering something very similar for significantly less. And not too many people in the EU would choose a Tesla over a VW just because of their brand name, and thats before all this twitter madness.

https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/172615/new-volkswagen-id3-vs-tesla-model-3-specs-comparison
 
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Darat said:
What is amazing is how such conspiracy theorists can hold two contradictory facts at the same time and somehow think they support each other. We get told that businesses aren’t “virtuous” it’s all about the profit, apart from Twitter….
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I missed this back when you posted it - but I'm revisiting it because I think it's important to understand that the reason certain kinds of "conspiracy theorists" are able to make contradictory arguments and act as if they support each other, is because they don't strictly believe both, or even necessarily either, are actually true.

The only point is the performance of support for the group or personality - Elon Musk, in this case. It's okay to profess mutually-exclusive claims because the arguments don't have to support each other, they just have to individually support Musk.
 
Ziggurat said:
Musk has a knack for identifying technology opportunities and betting big on them. This is a non-trivial skill. For example, with SpaceX he bet big on reusability, and he bet big on methane rockets. These were not completely original ideas, but he's the first to really bet the company on them, and those bets paid off. He's also bet big on full flow cycle rocket engines (the Raptor), and on steel rather than aluminum. Those bets haven't fully played out yet, but they are promising.
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I'd say the methane rocket hasn't "fully paid off" yet either (Falcon 9 does not use them). They seem to work, but there were a lot of unscheduled disassemblies with the test vehicles they've tried them in.

Starship is not only not "fully paid off", it's not even at the "it's definitely viable" stage. No Starship has flown, let alone got into orbit.

I wouldn't even say the book is closed on reusable. We do not know what it costs SpaceX to fly a Falcon 9 and how much, if anything, reusability saves because they do not publish their costs. For all wee know, they might lose money on every launch and be subsidising them with the billions of dollars of investment they raise every year. Even if they do make money on each launch, the same rocket might be cheaper without reusability.

The only technology bet we can be sure Musk is ahead on is Tesla and Tesla has its problems.

SpaceX is a "probable". TBC is almost certainly a bust. The Hyperloop is a bust. Neuralink is probably a bust. Twitter, well Twitter is a dumpster fire.

ETA: Darat reminds me that Solar City was a bust to the point where Tesla shareholders were swindled on that one.
 
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By the way, this just in:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63963239

Elon Musk is no longer the World's richest man. This is entirely due to the drop in the Tesla share price but the article speculates that part of the cause of the drop is Musk's distraction with Twitter.

Ids it really possible for one man to be CEO of three companies and do an effective job at more than one of them?
 
jeremyp said:
I wouldn't even say the book is closed on reusable. We do not know what it costs SpaceX to fly a Falcon 9 and how much, if anything, reusability saves because they do not publish their costs. For all wee know, they might lose money on every launch and be subsidising them with the billions of dollars of investment they raise every year.
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It's true that reusable doesn't necessarily mean cheap. The Space Shuttle was partly reusable, but extremely expensive to operate. But there's a key metric we can use to compare the two without even looking at their balance sheets, and that's turnaround time. And turnaround time is directly connected to costs, since it's all the stuff that you need to do to get the thing ready for relaunch that drives up the cost. If you can do that quickly, that means there's less stuff you need to do, and thus less cost.

The Space Shuttle never really achieved the turnaround times they were aiming for. Falcon 9, on the other hand, has achieved some pretty quick turnarounds. So that's a very strong indicator that they don't need to spend a lot to get a Falcon 9 to launch again, which means that they've almost certainly not losing big money on each launch.

Even if they do make money on each launch, the same rocket might be cheaper without reusability.
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I find that very, very unlikely. Again, rapid turnaround points to low operating costs.
 
jeremyp said:
Ids it really possible for one man to be CEO of three companies and do an effective job at more than one of them?
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Depends on who he hires. If he hired the right people (which is not an easy task), he hardly has to do anything.
 
Ziggurat said:
Depends on who he hires. If he hired the right people (which is not an easy task), he hardly has to do anything.
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He needs to hire a CEO for each of his companies, and then just give them some general guidance at a monthly meeting. It would be, I would think, terribly irritating to be the person actually running one of his businesses and have him constantly micromanaging you. In fact, probably to the point that top talent would never consider doing it.
 
I find it interesting to see who is "defending" Elmo here on this board. Oh shut up yes you are!

"Ya he makes electric cars which we hate, but he's a crazy ******* billionaire with few morals if any, so we like him"

I told my Dad I would like an electric car for my next car and he exclaimed, "WHY!?", almost angrily.

My Dad knows all the talking points. Not what's behind them, but he can repeat them. Pathetic. Sorry Dad.
 
mgidm86 said:
I find it interesting to see who is "defending" Elmo here on this board. Oh shut up yes you are!

"Ya he makes electric cars which we hate, but he's a crazy ******* billionaire with few morals if any, so we like him"

I told my Dad I would like an electric car for my next car and he exclaimed, "WHY!?", almost angrily.

My Dad knows all the talking points. Not what's behind them, but he can repeat them. Pathetic. Sorry Dad.
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It is odd. Conservatives tend to despise electric cars, but Musk owns the company responsible for making them mainstream.
 
Warp12 said:
So, this brings up a point. I get that a lot of people don't like Musk.
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A lot of people disliked Musk from the beginning, for whatever reasons. Now that he's tripped up they are wasting no time putting the boot in. This doesn't mean their initial dislike was justified.

But is there a chance that while he is gifted, he is also saddled with mental illness? I feel like we often see this with creative people. Of course, there are studies on connections between creative types and mental illness.
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The same traits that make a person stand out in one way do so in others. But Musks's main illness is simple - afluenza.

I have seen it so many times. Somebody starts a business with altruistic goals, but that soon changes as the focus on money corrupts their outlook. Then the power and influence it gives them goes to their head, and they imagine they are smarter so their opinions must have more weight. In Musk's case it's worse because he is smarter. But smart people can be idiots too (and frequently are).

We saw the shift in Musk during Covid lockdowns. Suddenly he was a denier for the simple fact that it was affecting his business. Once he went down that path it was obvious where he would end up - along with all the others who value their wealth over human lives. It's ironic that Musk invested in Tesla because he was smart enough and empathic enough to risk everything on making the World a better place for everyone, yet now he can't see what an idiot he is being. But that's what money does to people.

It's not the only influence though. All those people who tried to tear Musk down in the beginning are partly responsible for what he has become. He fought the naysayers and proved them wrong, but as someone who has built up their own business against the odds I bet the personal strain must have been enormous. He may even be suffering from a form of PTSD (I have seen that in a few business owners too).
 
Roger Ramjets said:
It's not the only influence though. All those people who tried to tear Musk down in the beginning are partly responsible for what he has become. He fought the naysayers and proved them wrong, but as someone who has built up their own business against the odds I bet the personal strain must have been enormous. He may even be suffering from a form of PTSD (I have seen that in a few business owners too).
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PTSD from people telling you you won't succeed at something? Please.
 
Looks like Musk is taking a page from the Trump playbook of not paying your debts...

From: Business Insider
...Twitter has stopped paying rent for any of its offices...and Musk has instructed employees to no longer pay Twitter's vendors.... Musk's team is now weighing the possibility of not paying the severance at all...Twitter has also recently listed office supplies for auction in another cost-cutting attempt.

Could this be any more of a dumpster fire?
 
So what do we say if/when Twitter declares bankruptcy? Need something based on conservative BS.

Go _____ go broke? Something that rhymes with woke.
 
Warp12 said:
Look man, I'm not that emotionally invested.

I don't have his poster on the wall; he is not my personal hero or villain.

I am just sharing my opinions and observations related to this most recent outpouring of criticism.
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You can afford not to be emotionally invested, it's not you he is trying to harm.
 
I don't get this rule where, if you criticise someone you have to find something nice to say about them.

I was reasonably critical of the guy who once threw a broken bottle at my head. Was I supposed to say "To be fair, he had pretty good aim'
 
Robin said:
I don't get this rule where, if you criticise someone you have to find something nice to say about them.
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The rule I don't get is the one where if you're not a full-throated supporter of someone, you perforce are against them and everything they stand for, and there's no nuance or middle ground.
 
Doubt said:
So what do we say if/when Twitter declares bankruptcy? Need something based on conservative BS.

Go _____ go broke? Something that rhymes with woke.
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Go Snoke go broke! Just look at everything Supreme Leader Snoke has in common with Elon:

  • Dark side force user
  • Raises an army (star destroyers, trolls) to oppress a minority, or maybe just for the lols
  • Owns at least one lightsaber (probably?)
  • Male pattern baldness
  • Wears dark robes and other unusual clothes
 
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