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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VIII

I don't think I would recommend reading the Warren Commission's volumes cover-to-cover - it would probably only lead to confusion, information overload, and important information being forgotten. I suggest studying the case one subject at a time.

Which is why you fail.

Most of the other JFK-ctists have read some or all of it. It's not confusing to smart people, especially now, 59-years later with all the background documents involving Mongoose and JMWAV. Also, if you take notes, you can't forget important information as you go along. This is a basic, junior high school study skill.

And there's only one case to study: Lee Oswald, who shot the President and a Dallas policeman on 11/22/63. He's not connected to anyone, wasn't part of a hit team, and wasn't brainwashed by the CIA. He was just a guy with a rifle working in the right place on the right day. No theory has, nor ever will change these facts.
 
1. The x-rays are simply too blurry to show detail. The x-rays were taken with portable equipment from World War 2, which was only fit to locate bullets and large bullet fragments.

Nope. Those supposedly old X-ray machines worked just fine in WWII to find bullet fragments.

2. A small hole in the center-back of the skull might not be obvious on x-rays taken from a side-view, because the surrounding layers of skull bone around such a hole could obstruct the view.

Gosh, good thing at least 4 doctors had JFK's head in their hands at some point after the shooting. None of them saw a small hole. Wonder why that is? Oh wait, they never saw it because it's not there.

3. In one conspiracy theory, there was no small wound in the back of the head, and some of the witnesses just lied about it. Either way, the EOP information suggests a conspiracy.

Only in Dumbville. Out here in normal people land, the 6.5x52mm Carcano round did all that damage to the skull. Sorry, you fail again.

4. In the non-professional opinion of some people on the internet like Pat Speer, the EOP area of the skull does indeed show some kind of small dark shape, and this has not been explained.

Did you read his blog? He's in no way qualified to assess anything medical. What kind of an idiot sites the opinion of a vastly unqualified layman to support their theory?... I mean in the real world...:rolleyes:
 
There is a cogent argument to be made that the first shot may not have actually been a "miss" (as in an inaccurate shot) but rather, it struck the mast arm of the traffic light below the sixth floor window, between LHO and JFK, and ricocheted away to a concrete curb where the FBI found evidence of a bullet impact. Its even possible that ricochet was what injured James Tague who was standing near the triple-underpass.

Sure, but it still missed.

I didn't specify why he missed, just that he did.
 
1. The x-rays are simply too blurry to show detail. The x-rays were taken with portable equipment from World War 2, which was only fit to locate bullets and large bullet fragments.

2. A small hole in the center-back of the skull might not be obvious on x-rays taken from a side-view, because the surrounding layers of skull bone around such a hole could obstruct the view.

3. In one conspiracy theory, there was no small wound in the back of the head, and some of the witnesses just lied about it. Either way, the EOP information suggests a conspiracy.

4. In the non-professional opinion of some people on the internet like Pat Speer, the EOP area of the skull does indeed show some kind of small dark shape, and this has not been explained.

You don't know or can't postulate that WWII x-ray machine couldn't or wouldn't identify "small" entry holes. The x-ray's don't show a hole because it didn't exist. All the doctors didn't see a hole because it wasn't there. Only in the minds of CTs is there a conspiracy around an EOP wound. We beat this to death but you don't learn from the lessons you just keep going back to the same old BS that has been debunked probably before you were born.
 
Nope. Those supposedly old X-ray machines worked just fine in WWII to find bullet fragments.

Gosh, good thing at least 4 doctors had JFK's head in their hands at some point after the shooting. None of them saw a small hole. Wonder why that is? Oh wait, they never saw it because it's not there.

Only in Dumbville. Out here in normal people land, the 6.5x52mm Carcano round did all that damage to the skull. Sorry, you fail again.

Did you read his blog? He's in no way qualified to assess anything medical. What kind of an idiot sites the opinion of a vastly unqualified layman to support their theory?... I mean in the real world...:rolleyes:

Good rebuttal to his nonsense.
 
"Why did LHO take 3 shots at JFK?"
"Because he didn't need 4."

So, I guess you're affirming that you don't believe there was another shot after the head shot? The three-shot witnesses overwhelmingly stated that last two reports sounded bunched together, as acknowledged by the Warren Commission report. And witnesses like Roy Kellerman made statements suggesting the third report came after the head shot. And, as Pat Speer has shown, the Dealey Plaza witnesses overwhelmingly suggest against a "first missed shot" before Zapruder frame 190.
 
So, I guess you're affirming that you don't believe there was another shot after the head shot? The three-shot witnesses overwhelmingly stated that last two reports sounded bunched together, as acknowledged by the Warren Commission report. And witnesses like Roy Kellerman made statements suggesting the third report came after the head shot. And, as Pat Speer has shown, the Dealey Plaza witnesses overwhelmingly suggest against a "first missed shot" before Zapruder frame 190.

Again, Pat Speer is an expert in nothing.

Only two shots are recorded in the Zapruder film, as supported by the actions of the Secret Service agent on the rear of Johnson's limo clearly looking for the source of what he though were firecrackers thrown at the motorcade. Kennedy is not struck before the upper back shot, which exits through the front.

Only two bullets strike Kennedy. This has never been in serious dispute, even by CT loons.

You continue to ignore the serious echo in Dealey Plaza, making ear-witness testimony questionable by those not under the direct flightpath of the bullets.
 
So, I guess you're affirming that you don't believe there was another shot after the head shot? The three-shot witnesses overwhelmingly stated that last two reports sounded bunched together, as acknowledged by the Warren Commission report. And witnesses like Roy Kellerman made statements suggesting the third report came after the head shot. And, as Pat Speer has shown, the Dealey Plaza witnesses overwhelmingly suggest against a "first missed shot" before Zapruder frame 190.

Echoes!

Again, Pat Speer is an expert in nothing.

Only two shots are recorded in the Zapruder film, as supported by the actions of the Secret Service agent on the rear of Johnson's limo clearly looking for the source of what he though were firecrackers thrown at the motorcade. Kennedy is not struck before the upper back shot, which exits through the front.

Only two bullets strike Kennedy. This has never been in serious dispute, even by CT loons.

You continue to ignore the serious echo in Dealey Plaza, making ear-witness testimony questionable by those not under the direct flightpath of the bullets.

This!

Dealey Plaza, was literally an echo chamber - lots of large vertical flat surfaces that would bounce a short, sharp loud sound like a gunshot all over the place.

In 2016, Bob Baer and his team carried out a complex programme of acoustic modelling in Dealey Plaza, and came to the conclusion that witnesses who claimed to hear more than three shots, most likely heard echos of Oswald's shots instead of shots from a second shooter on the "grassy knoll". In this case of those that heard "bang............ bang bang" the third "bang" was very likely an echo of the second bang from a nearby building.
 
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You tell me, mister expert.

Unless JFK was shot earlier in the day, there are only two bullet impacts recorded on him, and the shooting is on film. Parkland had two surgeons literally pinned to the wall, standing over Kennedy's head until he was read last rites. There were two pathologists at the autopsy who dissected the President's head, and removed the brain.

Two doctors in Dallas, two doctors in Bethesda.

2+2=4

Glad I could help.
 
You tell me, mister expert.

Unless JFK was shot earlier in the day, there are only two bullet impacts recorded on him, and the shooting is on film. Parkland had two surgeons literally pinned to the wall, standing over Kennedy's head until he was read last rites. There were two pathologists at the autopsy who dissected the President's head, and removed the brain.

Two doctors in Dallas, two doctors in Bethesda.

2+2=4

Glad I could help.

"None of them saw a small hole" in the head??? What do you mean by that?
 
Dr. David Mantik's newly released book JFK Assassination Paradoxes, in which he proves with hard scientific evidence--optical density measurements and radiological analysis--that the JFK autopsy skull x-rays have been altered. As Dr. Greg Henkelmann says in his endorsement of this book, "to reject alteration of the JFK skull x-rays is to reject basic physics and radiology."

Lone-gunman theorists seem to be caught in a time warp and act like we're living in the early 1990s, seemingly oblivious to the historic evidence that has come to light via the ARRB releases and new scientific research.

For example, we now know from ARRB-released files that the autopsy doctors determined for an absolute fact during the autopsy that JFK's back wound had no exit point, and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat. The autopsy doctors, we now know, probed the back wound extensively after removing the chest organs and while positioning the body in different angles and positions. Toward the end of the probing, Dr. Finck informed the two FBI observers (Sibert and O'Neill) that the back wound had no exit point. One of the medical technicians who witnessed the probing could see the end of the probe pushing against the lining of the chest cavity--he could see that the wound was shallow and had no exit point. The HSCA medical panel was aware of this evidence but chose to suppress it by sealing it for 50 years, but the ARRB released it in the mid-1990s.

The fact that the back wound had no exit point, of course, debunks the single-bullet theory, and without the single-bullet theory there can be no lone-gunman theory. Since the SBT is false, there must have been at least two gunmen firing at JFK.
 
"...at least two gubmen?" Aw hell, Mike, there was six of us potting away at that race traitor catholic! And that's just my crew on the glassy knoll! Up in the book incinerator,* I know for a hard radiological fact that the CIA mob had twelve or a baker's dozen Cuban zombie sharkshooters! No, they couldn't hit a telephone booth from inside (Govt. House White Label Rum, 100 proof, will make both your eyes see double) but at least they tried!

Old stuff, Mike. Try a verse of "This land is my land, It sure ain't yer land, In my Gulf Stream trailer, To the old glad hand!" or however it goes.

* It was Texas. Still is.
 
Dr. David Mantik's newly released book JFK Assassination Paradoxes, in which he proves with hard scientific evidence--optical density measurements and radiological analysis--that the JFK autopsy skull x-rays have been altered. As Dr. Greg Henkelmann says in his endorsement of this book, "to reject alteration of the JFK skull x-rays is to reject basic physics and radiology."

Cool. Mantik is wrong. He's also a CTist. If you read his "evaluation" of the x-rays, and the autopsy it is clear he knows nothing about the events of the hours from the shooting, until they boxed up JFK later at Bethesda. He doesn't discuss his methodology of applying his techniques to the x-rays. Nor does he say how he was able to do this at the National Archives with any reliability.

He also claims the Zapruder Film was altered, which already know is a lie.

Lone-gunman theorists seem to be caught in a time warp and act like we're living in the early 1990s, seemingly oblivious to the historic evidence that has come to light via the ARRB releases and new scientific research.

No, we live in 2022, a world where USSOCOM has adopted the 6.5 as its go-to caliber for long-range shooting.

And the ARRB was almost 30 years ago. Had you bothered to read through the other JFK threads you'd know their work has been extensively discussed.

Your lack, or inability to do basic research on a simple message board calls into question your capabilities to access basic information.

For example, we now know from ARRB-released files that the autopsy doctors determined for an absolute fact during the autopsy that JFK's back wound had no exit point, and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat.

That's a lie, for several reasons.

1. They never probed the back would because YOU CAN'T PROBE SUCH WOUNDS. You'd know this had you actually read the ARRB interviews with Dr. Humes. You'd also know that Humes x-rayed the entire body, head to toe. So if there is a bullet in JFK's chest, why didn't the illustrious Dr. Mantik see it? Or why no evidence that the bullet was masked during the x-ray faking?

$5 says the clown never even looked.

2. As we have discussed at length, Humes didn't think to call the Parkland ER doctors regarding the throat wound until after the autopsy. He and Dr. Finck both said they would have paid closer attention. As it was, they believed it to be a tracheostomy, and focused on the head wound.

Again, had you bothered to read any of the ARRB, you'd have read Dr. Humes' deposition, wherein he said"

Q. And there was a gunshot wound to the neck, wasn't there?
A. Well, you'd better clarify that. There was a big gaping tracheotomy wound in the anterior neck. I learned later that there had been a gunshot wound in that location, but I didn't know it. That was 99 percent of my problem. There was a bullet wound in the back above the scapula, like I mentioned earlier, and there was a wound of entrance in the back of the skull and a wound of exit in the skull. Those were the wounds.

3. Drafts are not the final report. Drafts are just that, works in progress. People who fail English class think otherwise.
4. Dr. Humes was rushed. He never got to review the x-rays OR the photographs before writing the autopsy report:

Q. Were you anticipating at the time you were performing the autopsy that you would have the photographs and X-rays available for your inspection at the time you were writing the autopsy report?
A. No, I never expected to have them when I was writing the autopsy--he wanted the autopsy report in, what, 36 to 48 hours. No, I didn't anticipate I'd have them at that time.
Q. When did he--he being Dr. Burkley, I assume--when you said he wanted them in 36 to 48 hours?
A. Autopsy report.
Q. Yes.
A. Before he left the morgue. Before he left the morgue that night, he said he would like to have the report, if we could, by 6:00 p.m. on Sunday night.

Q. And that was Dr. Burkley?
A. That was Dr. Burkley.

The truth is much more complex.

The autopsy doctors, we now know, probed the back wound extensively after removing the chest organs and while positioning the body in different angles and positions.

Nope.

When they removed the organs they found one of the lungs was bruised, and wondered where the bullet went. Later, they called Parkland, and figured out the bullet had passed through the body. Also, Parkland had no idea about the back wound.


Toward the end of the probing, Dr. Finck informed the two FBI observers (Sibert and O'Neill) that the back wound had no exit point. One of the medical technicians who witnessed the probing could see the end of the probe pushing against the lining of the chest cavity--he could see that the wound was shallow and had no exit point. The HSCA medical panel was aware of this evidence but chose to suppress it by sealing it for 50 years, but the ARRB released it in the mid-1990s.

All of this is a lie. Read the ARRB.

The fact that the back wound had no exit point, of course, debunks the single-bullet theory, and without the single-bullet theory there can be no lone-gunman theory. Since the SBT is false, there must have been at least two gunmen firing at JFK.

The problem is the back wound did exit through the throat.

Look, if you want to believe in fairy tales that's you prerogative. But you can't come in here with 30 to 59 year-old lies and expect anyone to take you seriously.
 
Dr. David Mantik's newly released book JFK Assassination Paradoxes, in which he proves with hard scientific evidence--optical density measurements and radiological analysis--that the JFK autopsy skull x-rays have been altered. As Dr. Greg Henkelmann says in his endorsement of this book, "to reject alteration of the JFK skull x-rays is to reject basic physics and radiology."

Lone-gunman theorists seem to be caught in a time warp and act like we're living in the early 1990s, seemingly oblivious to the historic evidence that has come to light via the ARRB releases and new scientific research.

For example, we now know from ARRB-released files that the autopsy doctors determined for an absolute fact during the autopsy that JFK's back wound had no exit point, and that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about a bullet exiting the throat. The autopsy doctors, we now know, probed the back wound extensively after removing the chest organs and while positioning the body in different angles and positions. Toward the end of the probing, Dr. Finck informed the two FBI observers (Sibert and O'Neill) that the back wound had no exit point. One of the medical technicians who witnessed the probing could see the end of the probe pushing against the lining of the chest cavity--he could see that the wound was shallow and had no exit point. The HSCA medical panel was aware of this evidence but chose to suppress it by sealing it for 50 years, but the ARRB released it in the mid-1990s.

The fact that the back wound had no exit point, of course, debunks the single-bullet theory, and without the single-bullet theory there can be no lone-gunman theory. Since the SBT is false, there must have been at least two gunmen firing at JFK.

Did he perform tests on other x-rays taken with the same kind of portable equipment?
 

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