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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 31

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That's exactly the rule it did break. This is why the 'judicial facts' do nnot match the verdict insofar the judicial facts are pretty damning and quite contrary to Knox and Sollecito's stories. Sure in the short term, there was the short-term gratification of getting out of jail come hell or highwater but in the long term it leaves a massive question mark over the two, especially as the verdict against Guede names him as an accessory in cohorts with others but not the actual killer. No closure for anyone, not for the Kercher family, not for Knox, Sollecito or Guede.

It is not just conjecture either because the motivations report was over three month's late - and Italy is very strict in deadlines. Insiders say that Marasca was heard shouting at the others. He firmly believed guilt had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The motivations read as it does (highly damaging for the pair, and as evidenced in Sollecito's and Knox' inability to claim compensation) because word on the ground is that political intervention halted proceedings, and in light of the US State Department saying it would not extradite, the decision was to just 'do an Andreotti' and have done with it.

If the US press and PR companies had not interfere, Knox and Solleciot could have taken a lesser charge of manslaughter, out in half the eight-year sentence, free to get on with the rest of their lives.

This post is a word salad, apropos of nothing. Except the highlighted part is a real howler! I regret having had a mouthful of coffee when I read it.

Italy has been ordered to remedy the wrong conviction Knox has for calunnia, so sez the ECHR, and they are well behind in doing that.

Mignini stood provisionally convicted of abuse of office, but the prosecutors in that let the statute of limitations lapse.

And...... times a bunch of others. Wow, for you, Italy can do no wrong.

Except when Italy annulled the other convictions.

ETA "word on the ground"!?!? You're using THAT as a proven citation? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
 
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No, Guede was not 'playing the race card'. He concurs that it might have been his own internal narrative. It is only YOUR conjecture that he was 'playing the race card'.

As previously shown to you already, but which you choose to ignore because it doesn't suit your agenda, is this little tidbit from Judge Michelli:

[252] The presumed attacker’s behaviour, and in particular the words which he had addressed to no one knows who (to AMANDA, it must be presumed, remaining in the shadows in the house but reappearing
on the lane in the contest of her running away), and then in his turn unreasonable: given the mismatch in force between the knife and the chair, and of the strangeness that to then run away was the one holding the first rather than the second, to say something like “black man found, here’s the guilty party” makes no sense. The only person who could have seen any meaning in that phrase was, by sheer coincidence, RUDY himself, because it served him for justifying his reluctant behaviour in calling for help,not to mention his subsequent decamping: in his account, which at this point must be considered convenient, that phrase lingers on the pen nib, because – and in somewhat moving terms – it can be of worth in describing and explaining his state of mind and his behaviour subsequent to the fact, but from the point of view of the one who said it, it was an incomprehensible nonsense.

You tell me, Vix: what was the motivation for Guede to claim "“black man found, here’s the guilty party” other than to set up a scenario where he'll be blamed because he's black? Go on...give it try.

I wonder why you delight in using that phrase.

I wonder why you delight in trying to (unsuccessfully) convince us that Guede must have been convicted because he was black and not for the overwhelming evidence that he killed Kercher?

As for the Italian racism you highlight, it is not generational or systemic in the way the US prosecutor you cited was (bribing a witness to put two Black guys in jail knowing it would be extremely difficult for them to prove innocence).

You do insist on misrepresenting this. It's tiresome. You keep attempting to restrict Italian systemic and generational racism to the examples I gave for how prosecutors can be dishonest.


Italians can be as racist as anyone, especially as they are given permission from their far right governments. However, it is nonsense to say that Mignini prosecuting Knox and Sollecito is a parallel with your US prosecutor. Inverse racism? Really.

Really, Vix...do you think people here can't read what was actually said versus your continual spin? I have never said any such thing. Your habit of repeating a lie does not make it so; please stop doing it.


As for the phone logs, it is a legal finding of fact* that the phone logs prove Knox was not home with her boyfriend all night. Do read Marasca-Bruno.

Exactly how did the phone logs prove she wasn't home that night? She neither made nor received any call after noon on Nov. 1 and around noon on Nov. 2 other than the two Lumumba related texts. Court testimony showed both were handled by cell towers (the non-rotating kind!) that served Raffaele's apartment:

Lumumba to Knox text at 20:18:12

Via dell'Aquila,n. 5-Torre dell'Acquedotto, Sett 3

FROM MASSEI’S REPORT PAGE 318:

“1. The area around the defendant’s [Raffaele] home was reached by a very strong signal radiated from the Via Berardi sector 7 cell, indicated as being the‚ best server cell‛ with regard to Sollecito’s house; furthermore the signals of other cells are also powerful, respectively that with a pylon in Piazza Lupattelli sector 8 and that with a pylon in Via dell’Acquilla -Torre dell’Acquedotto sectors 3 and 9.”

MASSEI REPORT PAGE 323:

“-12.08.44 (lasted 68 seconds) Amanda calls Romanelli Filomena on number 347-1073006; the mobile phone connects to the Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 cell (which covers Sollecito’s house)

“− 12:11:02 (3 seconds) the Vodafone number 348-4673711 belonging to Meredith (this is the one [i.e. SIM card] registered to Romanelli Filomena) is called and its answering service is activated (cell used: Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 “
“− 12:11:54 (4 seconds): another call is made towards Meredith’s English mobile phone number (the cell used is the one in Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3, thus compatible with Sollecito’s house)”
“− 12:12:35 (lasting 36 seconds) Romanelli Filomena calls Amanda Knox (No. 348-4673590); Amanda receives the call connecting to the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 (still at Raffaele’s house)”


Knox to Lumumba text at 20:35:48

Via T. Berardi, Sett. 7

FROM MASSEI’S REPORT PAGE 318:

“1. The area around the defendant’s [Raffaele] home was reached by a very strong signal radiated from the Via Berardi sector 7 cell, indicated as being the‚ best server cell‛ with regard to Sollecito’s house; furthermore the signals of other cells are also powerful, respectively that with a pylon in Piazza Lupattelli sector 8 and that with a pylon in Via dell’Acquilla -Torre dell’Acquedotto sectors 3 and 9."

As for the location of the apparatus [the phone], the call made at 20:42:56 on 1.11.07 used the Via Beradi sector 7 cell, which serves the houses located along Corso Garibaldi.
Massei pg 317

At 06:02:59 on 2.11.07 (first contact of the day), the mobile phone received an SMS sent from the mobile phone of the father, Dr Francesco Sollecito, using the reception, in this case also, of the same base transceiver station on Via Beradi sector 7


*As well as objective scientific evidence.

Proof from your cherished Massei "merits court" based on the technical experts' testimony, that phones logs do NOT prove that Knox was away from RS's apartment that night.

What else ya got?
 
Standard pro-forma statement that follows, 'Not guilty'. However, it is followed by 'because of insufficient evidence', which means the facts are as found but more evidence is needed.

Oh...I thought it was a "clerical typo". LOL!!

You should know better than to pull this kind of nonsense on us.

M-B Report:

Pursuant to Article 620 letter A) Italian Code of Criminal Procedure; annuls the ruling under appeal with respect to the crime under charge B) of the rubric because the crime is extinct due to statute of limitations;
pursuant to Articles 620 letter L) and 530, section 2 Italian Code of Criminal
Procedure; excluding the aggravating circumstance under Italian under Article 61 n. 2 Penal Code, in relation to the crime of calumny, annuls the ruling under appeal without referral with respect to the crimes under charges A), D) and E) of the rubric because the appellants did not commit the act.

Exactly where does 'because of insufficient evidence' appear in that ruling?
The M-B Report doesn't mention "insufficient evidence" except in the appeal's grounds for complaint.

By the way Art. 530, Art. 2 also states, " The court shall deliver a judgment of acquittal also in case of insufficient, contradictory or lacking proof that the criminal act occurred, the accused committed it, the act is deemed an offence by law, the"

Looks like the police aren't the only ones afflicted by "amnesia".
 
Vixen the screeching cry to authority is getting old don't ya think?
You should be analyzing the evidence with just a wisp of neutral common sense if you want to see reality, anyone who can't see the hilarity of the knife and one of the great embarrassments of Italy has a bad case of blinding bias (or has rocks in the noggin).
Are you not curious why Stephony went crazy on that knife?
We all know what the courts did, why keep repeating instead of analyzing the timelines and evidence for yourself?

Many people prefer being wrong over admitting they are wrong.
Donald Trump is a classic example.
 
>snipped for blah blah blah blah...<

Insiders say that Marasca was heard shouting at the others. He firmly believed guilt had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Please stop stating your fantasies from as facts. It's dishonest and unethical.

The motivations read as it does (highly damaging for the pair, and as evidenced in Sollecito's and Knox' inability to claim compensation)

Knox has never filed for compensation. Sigh.....

because word on the ground is that political intervention halted proceedings,

"word on the ground".....:lolsign:

and in light of the US State Department saying it would not extradite, the decision was to just 'do an Andreotti' and have done with it.

Ummmm....sure. Never happened. Please stop presenting your fiction as fact.



If the US press and PR companies had not interfere, Knox and Solleciot could have taken a lesser charge of manslaughter, out in half the eight-year sentence, free to get on with the rest of their lives.

Please stop presenting your fiction as fact.

The fact they didn't take a lesser charge or go for a fast-track trial like that liar Guede but instead chose to fight in a full trial is more supportive of innocence that guilt.
Please stop presenting your wild imaginings as fact.

STILL WAITING for any cited quotes that anyone has claimed "Knox wouldn't be friends with a black man". Why is that, Vix?
 
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STILL WAITING for any cited quotes that anyone has claimed "Knox wouldn't be friends with a black man". Why is that, Vix?

Maybe they are cited in the sources. 'the word on the ground', or, 'Insiders say....'

I'm still waiting for the 'word on the ground' about anyone, any peer reviewed DNA forensic expert who agrees with Stefanoni's original DNA work for the first prosecution. (There were two, one who conceded that Stefanoni had not followed international protocols, and another who admitted never seeing the negative controls.)

I guess that there are such experts, but the 'word on the ground' ain't talking!
 
Never happened. The fact Sollecito has to put this red herring into his book simply highlights his guilt and his deviousness that he seeks to mislead his reader and point them to the 'other guy'.

If the prosecution had really thought that the semen stain was Raffaele's they'd have stopped at nothing to test the sample. The fact that they didn't do so is vindication enough without the need to resort to any such "red herrings" as you put it.

Hoots
 
Vixen the screeching cry to authority is getting old don't ya think?
You should be analyzing the evidence with just a wisp of neutral common sense if you want to see reality, anyone who can't see the hilarity of the knife and one of the great embarrassments of Italy has a bad case of blinding bias (or has rocks in the noggin).
Are you not curious why Stephony went crazy on that knife?
We all know what the courts did, why keep repeating instead of analyzing the timelines and evidence for yourself?

Unfortunately, or fortunately, it is only authority that counts. The issue of the knife was dealt with thoroughly in court with experts from both sides. Contrary to your fantasies of a conspiracy.
 
As previously shown to you already, but which you choose to ignore because it doesn't suit your agenda, is this little tidbit from Judge Michelli:



You tell me, Vix: what was the motivation for Guede to claim "“black man found, here’s the guilty party” other than to set up a scenario where he'll be blamed because he's black? Go on...give it try.



I wonder why you delight in trying to (unsuccessfully) convince us that Guede must have been convicted because he was black and not for the overwhelming evidence that he killed Kercher?



You do insist on misrepresenting this. It's tiresome. You keep attempting to restrict Italian systemic and generational racism to the examples I gave for how prosecutors can be dishonest.




Really, Vix...do you think people here can't read what was actually said versus your continual spin? I have never said any such thing. Your habit of repeating a lie does not make it so; please stop doing it.




Exactly how did the phone logs prove she wasn't home that night? She neither made nor received any call after noon on Nov. 1 and around noon on Nov. 2 other than the two Lumumba related texts. Court testimony showed both were handled by cell towers (the non-rotating kind!) that served Raffaele's apartment:

Lumumba to Knox text at 20:18:12

Via dell'Aquila,n. 5-Torre dell'Acquedotto, Sett 3

FROM MASSEI’S REPORT PAGE 318:

“1. The area around the defendant’s [Raffaele] home was reached by a very strong signal radiated from the Via Berardi sector 7 cell, indicated as being the‚ best server cell‛ with regard to Sollecito’s house; furthermore the signals of other cells are also powerful, respectively that with a pylon in Piazza Lupattelli sector 8 and that with a pylon in Via dell’Acquilla -Torre dell’Acquedotto sectors 3 and 9.”

MASSEI REPORT PAGE 323:

“-12.08.44 (lasted 68 seconds) Amanda calls Romanelli Filomena on number 347-1073006; the mobile phone connects to the Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 cell (which covers Sollecito’s house)

“− 12:11:02 (3 seconds) the Vodafone number 348-4673711 belonging to Meredith (this is the one [i.e. SIM card] registered to Romanelli Filomena) is called and its answering service is activated (cell used: Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 “
“− 12:11:54 (4 seconds): another call is made towards Meredith’s English mobile phone number (the cell used is the one in Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3, thus compatible with Sollecito’s house)”
“− 12:12:35 (lasting 36 seconds) Romanelli Filomena calls Amanda Knox (No. 348-4673590); Amanda receives the call connecting to the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 (still at Raffaele’s house)”


Knox to Lumumba text at 20:35:48

Via T. Berardi, Sett. 7

FROM MASSEI’S REPORT PAGE 318:








Proof from your cherished Massei "merits court" based on the technical experts' testimony, that phones logs do NOT prove that Knox was away from RS's apartment that night.

What else ya got?

Still only one person's opinion. Imagine if Guede had bumped into Sollecito. If Italians are as racist as you say they are, he might well have called him a racist slur.


His description of Sollecito is pretty spot on. Sollecito seems terrified about 'what he might say about me'.
 
If the prosecution had really thought that the semen stain was Raffaele's they'd have stopped at nothing to test the sample. The fact that they didn't do so is vindication enough without the need to resort to any such "red herrings" as you put it.

Hoots

I am guessing Sollecito's defense persuaded the court that it was fruitless testing the pillow because Sollecito might have had sex on it at some point. The court decided even if a stain was found it doesn't necessarily mean it happened on the night of the murder.

If the pillow is still in the archives, maybe it is time to requisition it and other evidence now that DNA technology is even more advanced.
 
I am guessing Sollecito's defense persuaded the court that it was fruitless testing the pillow because Sollecito might have had sex on it at some point. The court decided even if a stain was found it doesn't necessarily mean it happened on the night of the murder.

If the pillow is still in the archives, maybe it is time to requisition it and other evidence now that DNA technology is even more advanced.

Don't guess. You have access to 'the word on the ground', and 'inside sources'!
 
I am guessing Sollecito's defense persuaded the court that it was fruitless testing the pillow because Sollecito might have had sex on it at some point. The court decided even if a stain was found it doesn't necessarily mean it happened on the night of the murder.

If the pillow is still in the archives, maybe it is time to requisition it and other evidence now that DNA technology is even more advanced.

I'm curious as to why Monica Napoleone (Remember her? She was the one who got banged up for malpractice) said in court that the pillow had Rudy's DNA on it:

"Question: Listen do you know the results from Scientific Police, more or less obviously, not in detail because then we’ll ask them. I wanted to ask you if you remember on which exhibits the DNA of Rudy Guede was found

Answer: Well, for sure the DNA of Rudy Guede, it was found on the pillow that was under the victim, on the toilet paper with the feces in the bathroom and on the vaginal swab but I don’t know if it was DNA however they call it Y-chromosome and I’m not a biologist, I’m not able to report on this." (p25 Transcript February 28, 2009)

Yet you said the pillow wasn't on the evidence list. So, it seems that things get tested for DNA that are not on the evidence list, right?

Hoots
 
I'm curious as to why Monica Napoleone (Remember her? She was the one who got banged up for malpractice) said in court that the pillow had Rudy's DNA on it:

"Question: Listen do you know the results from Scientific Police, more or less obviously, not in detail because then we’ll ask them. I wanted to ask you if you remember on which exhibits the DNA of Rudy Guede was found

Answer: Well, for sure the DNA of Rudy Guede, it was found on the pillow that was under the victim, on the toilet paper with the feces in the bathroom and on the vaginal swab but I don’t know if it was DNA however they call it Y-chromosome and I’m not a biologist, I’m not able to report on this." (p25 Transcript February 28, 2009)

Yet you said the pillow wasn't on the evidence list. So, it seems that things get tested for DNA that are not on the evidence list, right?

Hoots

AFAIAA the only DNA of Guede's found was of the epithelial type, not bodily fluid type.

It does seem strange not to test an item found under the body. The court's finding was that Knox and Sollecito returned after the murder and Guede had fled to rearrange the body to make it look like a rape motive and then faked a burglary.
 
AFAIAA the only DNA of Guede's found was of the epithelial type, not bodily fluid type.

It does seem strange not to test an item found under the body. The court's finding was that Knox and Sollecito returned after the murder and Guede had fled to rearrange the body to make it look like a rape motive and then faked a burglary.

"THE" court's finding!?

That's strange. THE court with the definitive acquittals acquitted the pair of that charge, too!

Marasca-Bruno said:
pursuant to Articles 620 letter L) and 530, section 2 Italian Code of Criminal
Procedure; excluding the aggravating circumstance under Italian under Article 61 n.
2 Penal Code, in relation to the crime of calumny, annuls the ruling under appeal
without referral with respect to the crimes under charges A), D) and E) of the rubric
because the appellants did not commit the act...

That's now a judicial fact.
 
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With five hundred or so items on the evidence list I would imagine that there would have been a preliminary hearing for the sides to present which should be included in the issues as evidence.

Wow. You've now added 'I would imagine' to your evidentiary methodology, added it to 'My guess would be', 'the word on the ground', and 'inside sources'.

I will admit, you've set the standard for transparency in assessing this case.
 
Here is one quote from the Italian media underscoring that there's nothing unusual about the Marasca CSC panel verdict annulling the conviction by the Nencini court and fully acquitting Knox and Sollecito on the murder/rape charges:



Source: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/20...sistema-informatico-e-danneggiamento/5934847/

You are still not getting it.

Consider this. A person X, the defendant, is tried and at the trial the facts found are:

  • he was not where he claimed to be as of the time frame of the murder
  • his phone was switched off prior to this
  • the victim's body is found locked in her room
  • Defendant X lives there so would know about the key to lock the door
  • The defendant's bare footprints are highlighted by luminol in a luminol sensitive substance that chemically reacts to it, such as blood
  • Defendant X's DNA and blood is mixed in with that of the victim's.
  • A knife is found that has the victim's DNA on the blade and his DNA on the handle.
  • The defendant's DNA is on the victim's underwear.
  • The defendant X lies in his police statements, changing his story several times.
  • Defendant X is seen hanging about outside the house when police arrive.
  • Defendant X, as per phone logs, calls the police after the police have arrived.

So these are the facts as found by the court after hearing all of the evidence put in front of it. including cross-examination of expert witnesses for both sides.

Defendant X is found 'Guilty'

Defendant X appeals. The appeal is dismissed and the 'Guilty' verdict is upheld.

It goes to the Supreme Court who changes the verdict to 'Not Guilty due to insufficient evidence and the pro-forma standard sentence structure as on all such verdicts, 'for not having committed the crime'.


As the Supreme Court does not have the jurisdiction to fact-find and in the case of Defendant X, it has egregiously and unusually dismissed the case without sending it back to the court it claims erred.

So do you now see the problem? Defendant X has a 'not guilty' verdict but the damning facts remain in perpetuity as listed above.

Proverbs 22:1 – “A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, loving favor rather than silver and gold.”

"Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name But he that filches from me my good name. Robs me of that which not enriches him, And makes me poor indeed.” ― William Shakespeare, Othello


So what is better in your view: a short prison sentence but a list of damning legal facts found, in perpetuity, or a proper due process, even it means going back to court?


So yeah you can go around quoting the pro-forma but it doesn't change the fact of 'Your knife, her DNA'.
 
"THE" court's finding!?

That's strange. THE court with the definitive acquittals acquitted the pair of that charge, too!



That's now a judicial fact.

Marasca-Bruno's motivation report stands. That, there were multiple attackers, the pair lied and lied and lied, the burglary was staged, Knox was present during the murder, and almost certainly Sollecito and in addition, Knox named Lumumba to cover up for Guede.

Definitive means completely, fully. A para 530 acquittal, 'insufficient evidence' does not meet that threshold.
 
Unfortunately, or fortunately, it is only authority that counts. The issue of the knife was dealt with thoroughly in court with experts from both sides. Contrary to your fantasies of a conspiracy.
Stephony testified in court that she went crazy on that knife, she basically claimed she's the best in the world but won't share her discoveries.
Maybe she's allergic to the Nobel.
You struggle to understand what happened in this case and hate the outcome
 
Marasca-Bruno's motivation report stands. That, there were multiple attackers, the pair lied and lied and lied, the burglary was staged, Knox was present during the murder, and almost certainly Sollecito and in addition, Knox named Lumumba to cover up for Guede.

Definitive means completely, fully. A para 530 acquittal, 'insufficient evidence' does not meet that threshold.

None of this is true, except for what definitive means.

I don't know what you want? I've just posted M-B's actual words. You say you know better than them.

Oh well, there we sit.
 
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