The Bible is a Human Artifice!!!

[theprestige]

Do you maintain that YHWH is real and exists and is a TRICKSTER DASTARD of an omnipotent deity???

No. I maintain the following:

If an omnipotent deity existed, they could certainly author a work of fiction if they wanted to.

And you have not yet shown any evidence that this particular work of fiction could not have been so authored.

You just assume it wasn't, because you assume axiomatically that no such deity exists. And this axiom, in turn, is nothing more than the null hypothesis for the claim that such a deity does exist.

But assuming the null is not the same as showing evidence to support it.

 

[Leumas]

No.

I want you to indicate which part of your argument proves the author could not have been an omnipotent deity. You may imagine the answer lies hidden somewhere within a hundred previous posts but this does not appear to be the case. Your arguments seem only to indicate the bible is fiction, which is a different point from the one you contend to prove.


Here we have a story about a large cast of characters, one of whom is acclaimed as the author of the story. If you can prove large parts of the story are untrue, does that prove the claimed author is not the author? No. It might show that the story's description of how the book came to be written isn't true, but that is not the point at issue.

No. I maintain the following:

If an omnipotent deity existed, they could certainly author a work of fiction if they wanted to.

And you have not yet shown any evidence that this particular work of fiction could not have been so authored.

You just assume it wasn't, because you assume axiomatically that no such deity exists. And this axiom, in turn, is nothing more than the null hypothesis for the claim that such a deity does exist.

But assuming the null is not the same as showing evidence to support it.

When you prove that Dr. Watson did not write the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes... apply that same reasoning to YHWH.... go on I am sure you can do it.

Or maybe if you can prove that the wily Shahrazad did not spin the tall tale of Aladdin and His Magic Lamp.

But hey... at least those were humans in the fictive works... not an "omnipotent deity" writing tall tales about himself writing tall tales... in the language of the Canaanites and scripted using the flawed and incomplete Abjad of the Arameans.

 

[psionl0]

No. I maintain the following:

If an omnipotent deity existed, they could certainly author a work of fiction if they wanted to.

And you have not yet shown any evidence that this particular work of fiction could not have been so authored.

You just assume it wasn't, because you assume axiomatically that no such deity exists. And this axiom, in turn, is nothing more than the null hypothesis for the claim that such a deity does exist.

But assuming the null is not the same as showing evidence to support it.

This is known as "begging the question". It is a form of circular argument where one assumes the truth of what they are trying to prove.

 

[Leumas]

This is known as "begging the question". It is a form of circular argument where one assumes the truth of what they are trying to prove.

So you believe the bible is a work of fiction now??? Uh huh...

And you believe that YHWH wrote a work of fiction and foisted it off on humanity as part of his celestial hoax... or just to make a few shekels and get a few tons of burned offerings to tickle his nostrils with the sweet smell of burning flesh of slaughtered and riven animals??? Ah and not to mention the mayhem and strife and rapine and racism and hate mongering and slavery and misogyny and misanthropy and voodoo rituals and misery and witch burnings and bigotry and wretchedness that his work of fiction has fomented.... he must have really enjoyed this REALITY SHOW resulting from his fictional artifice....

 

[psionl0]

Reality called. They want your brain back.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

When you prove that Dr. Watson did not write the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes... apply that same reasoning to YHWH.... go on I am sure you can do it...

Arthur Conan Doyle could have chosen to give John Watson his own name, had he wished. There was nothing making that a logical impossibility.

Apply that reasoning to God and then please show us where you proved it could not have happened.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So you believe the bible is a work of fiction now??? Uh huh...

What any of us here believe or not is entirely beside the point. The point of this thread is your claim to have shown the bible was written by humans. So far all you have is evidence that stuff in the bible isn't true. Do you perhaps now intend to show that omnipotent deities cannot lie?

 

[Leumas]

What any of us here believe or not is entirely beside the point. The point of this thread is your claim to have shown the bible was written by humans. So far all you have is evidence that stuff in the bible isn't true. Do you perhaps now intend to show that omnipotent deities cannot lie?

You have still not managed to read the op or any of the other posts... when you do you will see the illogic in your statements... so go read them.

 

[Leumas]

Arthur Conan Doyle could have chosen to give John Watson his own name, had he wished. There was nothing making that a logical impossibility.

Apply that reasoning to God and then please show us where you proved it could not have happened.

Yup... apply that logic... did Doyle write in the language of the Celts and using the Egyptian demotic??

And Doyle existed ... did YHWH.... do you believe he did... and also that he is a dastardly trickster god like Loki??

 

[Leumas]

That would appear to be a case for the bible being a work of fiction, as I think almost everyone here would agree, but can you explain which part shows that the fiction could not have been authored by an omnipotent deity?

What any of us here believe or not is entirely beside the point.

So now you changed your mind?? And if it does not matter... why did you make a point of it??

And who is this "us" you keep talking about ... and why do you presume to speak for this "us"??


Do these "us" also believe that YHWH is a real omnipotent deity who is a dastardly TRICKSTER who writes works of fiction and foists them unto gullible humans to cause mayhem and racism and ethnic cleansing and pogroms and blood libel and holocausts???

 

[Craig4]

So now you changed your mind?? And if it does not matter... why did you make a point of it??

And who is this "us" you keep talking about ... and why do you presume to speak for this "us"??

You do know that most people here are athiests, agnostic or "none" right? The vast majority of people here believe the bibles in their various incarnations are works of fiction (with the odd smattering of accurate history occasionally popping up).

 

[Leumas]

You do know that most people here are athiests, agnostic or "none" right? The vast majority of people here believe the bibles in their various incarnations are works of fiction (with the odd smattering of accurate history occasionally popping up).

GREAT!!!... now... do you also believe that this work of fiction was written by one of the characters in the work of fiction ... namely YHWH???

Or do you believe like the above that YHWH was a pseudonym for Loki??

Do you really not see how irrational it is to say that the bible is a work of fiction but it is written by an omnipotent deity???




.

 

[Craig4]

GREAT!!!... now... do you also believe that this work of fiction was written by one of the characters in the work of fiction ... namely YHWH???

Or do you believe like the above that YHWH was a pseudonym for Loki??

Do you really not see how irrational it is to say that the bible is a work of fiction but it is written by an omnipotent deity???




.

Obviously that's irrational. Believing in a deities omnipotent or not is also irrational. Why the angst here? It's a bit of a Blinding Flash of the Obvious (BFO).

 

[Leumas]

GREAT!!!... now... do you also believe that this work of fiction was written by one of the characters in the work of fiction ... namely YHWH???

Or do you believe like the above that YHWH was a pseudonym for Loki??

Do you really not see how irrational it is to say that the bible is a work of fiction but it is written by an omnipotent deity???

Obviously that's irrational. Believing in a deities omnipotent or not is also irrational. Why the angst here? It's a bit of a Blinding Flash of the Obvious (BFO).

GREAT!!!.... so please now tell that to the guy who is persisting on saying this...

That would appear to be a case for the bible being a work of fiction, as I think almost everyone here would agree, but can you explain which part shows that the fiction could not have been authored by an omnipotent deity?

 

[Craig4]

GREAT!!!.... so please now tell that to the guy who is persisting on saying this...

Context is a thing that happens to other people in your world it seems.

 

[Leumas]

Reality called. They want your brain back.

Do you believe the bible is a work of fiction... do you believe YHWH is a fiction... do you believe the fictive YHWH wrote the fairy tales about YHWH???

Are you one of those "us" some keep speaking on behalf of???

If so then you do believe that the Bible is a fairy tales... as the spokesman stated... but... do you also aver that YHWH is an omnipotent deity who wrote the fairy tales as the spokesman persist in asserting???

 

[Leumas]

Context is a thing that happens to other people in your world it seems.

That is the most ubiquitous word in the apologetics ... well.... context... and they love to use it without ever elaborating on what exactly is this "context" ... so no... it is most definitely not one of my favorite apologetics.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Yup... apply that logic... did Doyle write in the language of the Celts and using the Egyptian demotic??



And Doyle existed ... did YHWH.... do you believe he did... and also that he is a dastardly trickster god like Loki??

The language problem you offer does not arise since the suggested author might have written in any language.

It's not relevant that I don't believe Gods exist; the matter at hand is that you claim to have proven no non-human authored the bible. Present your proof.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So now you changed your mind?? And if it does not matter... why did you make a point of it??

And who is this "us" you keep talking about ... and why do you presume to speak for this "us"??


Do these "us" also believe that YHWH is a real omnipotent deity who is a dastardly TRICKSTER who writes works of fiction and foists them unto gullible humans to cause mayhem and racism and ethnic cleansing and pogroms and blood libel and holocausts???

No I have not changed my mind. "Us" is people contributing to the thread. I don't presume to talk for others, I merely offer my opinion based on what I have observed. For the umpteenth time, what people reading this thread believe is not the subject of the thread.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You have still not managed to read the op or any of the other posts... when you do you will see the illogic in your statements... so go read them.

You're not my schoolteacher so kindly stop trying to set me homework. Your failure clearly to articulate your argument is not my problem.