Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
You are being quite delusional.
The Supernatural Part II
- Thread starter heydarian saeed
- Start date
You are being quite delusional.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
This is true: heydarian has said that hell does not exist:
heydarian saeed said:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=13677633#post13677633
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
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- 22,107
So "Hell" is just nonexistence.
To quote Mark Twain, "I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
If the OP is trying to warn us of the consequences of not believing in his god, he's going to need to try a lot harder than threatening us with what most of us have already accepted as reality.
But then, how did Heydarian measure the temperature of a metaphor?
How did you do it, Heydarian? Please explain the science supporting that figure of ten billion trillion degrees Celsius.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello
Our words are completely logical. Which logical approach do you follow?
I'm sorry for you
When you have nothing logical and correct to say, you answer in the same way. And you post false and useless content. And again, I am sorry that you are not alone in this forum. Your completely wrong way of thinking is supported by others.
It doesn't matter to us. We said our logical thing. There is no obligation for you to accept it.
Your wrong thinking is completely rejected.
It is useless to continue the logical discussion with you and the like. It's like hitting water!!!
I'm sorry.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Every word in this insulting rant would be more accurately said to you rather than by you. You are the one with wrong way of thinking, and I am truly sorry for you.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Presumably, in the same lab he said he had, and then admitted he didn't have.
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
If you actually believe that such nonsense talk will somehow make you look better to your superiors and/or your god, then you are quite mistaken.
Your words here have been completely NOT logical and not rational, and very often not even truthful (dishonest) from the very beginning of this this thread. You are wasting everyone's time here telling people that they are not logical when they are following the results of published science & when it is YOU who is the one denying all of the published science.
You can make silly claims saying that you "reject" what anyone else says, but you are the one who cannot admit or accept published peer reviewed science.
You do not have any genuine published science papers that support your claim of finding science described by a god in a 7th century Quran, do you! The answer is - no, you absolutely do not have any of the hundreds of thousands of science papers supporting a single word of your claims. That's the real honest answer which you cannot admit.
But I want to ask you something else as well - you claim that YOU yourself are a worldwide expert on your new translation of the Quran, and you reject the older established translations. BUT - which copy of the Quran are you using to make your translation? ... how old is that Copy and where did you get it?
Whatever copy you have is not original from early 7th century is it? It is not THE actual original copy of the Quran, is it?
It cannot be the actual first original copy, because that no longer exists. And when we talk for example about the "Birmingham Copy", that is actually just 2 pages from the Quran, i.e. it's just 1% ... the other 99% is missing. There are other pages elswhere that are thought to be from around the same date & perhaps from the same copy, but none of it is a first original copy. AFAIK (eg see Wikipedia) the most complete copy is generally agreed to date probably around the late 800's AD (say, circa 890AD) ... but of course nobody knows if that is the same as what was originally written around 630AD ...
... so which copy are you using to make your translations?
... where did you get that copy?
... since your copy is definitely NOT original, that means you may very easily be translating verses or specific words that were never in the missing original Quran! ...
... you may be translating verses & words that were added later and which are false verses & words not ever written originally as the Quran.
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Chanakya
,
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Ha ha ha, it's like talking to a doorknob! Zero comprehension there.
And I note that all efforts to mimic old-world courtesy have now gone right out the window.
Thanks, guy, for this remarkable under-the-hood look at what a fundamentalist religious mind actually looks like. Because IRL one doesn't get the chance to observe it so closely and so minutely. (Thankfully not, I guess. I'm sure it would be singularly unpleasant to come across something like this at close quarters IRL.)
But you're not discussing anything when you ignore questions.
Who measured the temperature of hell, and how did they do it?
You've stated that hell is a metaphor. How can a metaphor have a temperature?
How does a temperature high enough to vaporize all matter instantaneously cause pain to a corporeal being?
How does any temperature cause pain to a non-corporeal being?
Scorpion
Illuminator
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- Feb 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,812
Logic dictates that if the Quran says something that is entirely wrong it cannot be the words of God. You may dispute the meaning when the Quran says the sun swims in an orbit, You may say the standard Muslim propaganda lie that it means the sun orbits the galaxy, even though it really says the sun orbits the earth
But you cannot deny the Quran says the heaven and earth were created in six days (see my post 66)
Logic dictates that since we know this is not true God had nothing to do with writing the Quran and Muhammad stole the six day creation myth from the bible.
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The problem here is you! YOU are the offender here!
You have never engaged in a neutral objective discussion. You do not seem to know what an honest discussion or debate is ... in almost every one of your posts you make 5 or 6 statements that you present as absolute unarguable fact which you insist cannot ever be challenged & which you refuse to discuss for the possibility that you are wrong ...
... for example you keep saying "and you cannot deny (the science in the Quran) ... and everyone agrees, it is fact" ... in other words, you simply insist that you are right, and that nobody must disagree with you, or indeed point out why you are almost certainly wrong according all known evidence, of which there is a vast mountain of it against you, and no evidence at all in support of your belief ...
... and you say the same about God, your posts very often say that God is a fact "and is proved, and cannot be denied, and all agree" ... it's the same thing again from you, in post-after-post - you have no genuine evidence of God, all genuine evidence is against you, and there is a vast mass of that evidence against you, but you insist that we must all bow down to your insistence that "God is proved and cannot be denied" ... that is not a conversation from you ... it is not an honest genuine discussion, you are simply here preaching un-evidenced fanatical extreme religious fantasy beliefs …
… you are not alone in acting in such a disingenuous way, most committed Muslims do it, and in the USA in particular millions of devout Christians do it too … they believe that everything they see around them is certain proof of God! None of it is actually any evidence of any god at all, and science has shown why that is for at least the last 150 years now, but those Chistians see the work of God's design in literality everything they ever encounter … and you are doing the same … you look at book, the Quran, which has no description of any modern-day science (if it had, then every scientist all over the world would be publishing that), and like the Christians with Intelligent Design, you see every sentence of the Quran as a scientific revelation from God … the words just say something completely simple and unscientific, but you have convinced yourself that it must mean quantum theory & DNA!
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heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello to all
Hello, dear philosopher
I like discussions with you and people like you who speak scientifically and logically.
Proving scientific content in the Qur'an requires understanding various topics. It is not just a matter of science. Rather, one should know the science of how to express content in the Asmani book. You see, the Quran is not an ordinary book. Rather, he has told numerous and innumerable topics for all human beings. And it is universal. A part of its content is about modern science. And the way of expressing it is also general. And he often did not tell the details. Because its purpose is search by humans.
As a free Shia Muslim, I am eager to have a neutral but logical and wise discussion. I see the problem of discussing the Qur'anic content in the fact that we Muslims have unfortunately not read the Qur'an scientifically. For this reason, we do not have enough ability to discuss with scientists and experts about scientific issues in the Qur'an. To prove the scientific content in the Qur'an. Quran is a heavenly and universal book from God. No one but God has said. And it has been said many times in the Qur'an that: anyone can say even one verse or one chapter like the Qur'an. And yet no one has been able to. As an example, I have mentioned some of the contents of modern science in the Qur'an in this thread. I am not a scientist. But I am a Qur'anic scholar. He is very interested in the Qur'an and its scientific discussions.
Thanks
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
hello scorpion
The sun is moving in its own orbit in the Milky Way galaxy. This is what it means. which floats in orbit. It is not difficult to understand this scientific matter. Muhammad was illiterate and could not even read any book. On what basis and logic do you say that Muhammad stole the contents of the Qur'an from the Holy Bible? Your lie is quite clear.
In the entire country of Arabia during the time of Muhammad, there were not 10 literate people who wanted to help Muhammad in reciting the Qur'an. Have you read the history of Saudi Arabia to understand? The Qur'an was only revealed to Muhammad by God. Like the revelation of the Bible to other prophets. Unfortunately, you talk very fanatically about the Quran and the Bible. I'm sorry.
I hope you think better.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
I disagree. All the verses in the Qur'an that describe celestial motion do so from a geocentric standpoint. They place the Sun and Moon in the same category of extraterrestrial objects and describe the limitations on their movements as if they were congruent, interacting objects, yet distinct from Earth. A galaxy is not even mentioned.
The Qur'an absolutely does not discuss the actual astrodynamic complexity you attribute to it. The Moon orbits the Earth, the Earth orbits the Sun, and the Sun orbits the center of its galaxy. You correctly identify our current scientific understanding of celestial mechanics. But to simply declare that this is what the Qur'an must have meant thoroughly ignores the similarity and congruence the Qur'an actually relies upon to make its point.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
That would require you to make some attempt to understand the responses you receive, which in turn would require you to consider the possibility that your beliefs are mistaken.
There is no point in you returning to this thread if all you are going to do is repeat the same faulty arguments that failed to convince anyone the first dozen times you made them.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
Nope. You're a Muslim zealot trying to prove your holy book somehow correctly states scientific fact that has only recently been known, and therefore must have a divine origin. It's a futile pursuit that does poor service to both religion and science. You've demonstrated you're not interested in a neutral discussion. You've demonstrated you're not interested in actual logic. Your only goal is to try to convert people to Islam, or (failing that) to rail against the infidels. You're not the only Muslim to try to prove the Qur'an is scientifically valid. You're not even the only Muslim at this forum to try to do so.
I am, and I'm familiar with the really stupid pseudo-science arguments Muslims typically make. You won't be the first person to try to convince me that the Qur'an is a scientifically accurate book, nor the first person to likely make a fool of himself in the process. It's up to you to surmount those expectations.
By what standard? I've read the Qur'an a few times. Do I get to call myself a "Qur'anic scholar" too? Or have you had some special adjudicated training or education that lets you apply that title in a way that we are somehow obliged to respect?