Electric universe theories here.

[Ziggurat]

So a plasma is also a liquid and a gas!



WoW! No wonder the maths is hard...

Fluid does not mean liquid. Both liquids and gases are fluids. Plasma is a subset of gas, gas is a subset of fluid.

You keep failing at the most basic levels.

 

[Sol88]

Anyhoo, plasma is also liquids and gases, right.

Now that plasma now includes gases and liquids, what role do they play in a black hole being thought of as a high voltage electrical power generator feeding current down braided coaxial power cables?

as per

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.06025.pdf

However, the observations that we have reviewed suggest a rather different metaphor. Black holes are turbines that are spun up by orbiting gas to generate high voltage electrical power and AGN jets are lossy and glowing, coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings.

I mean, I'm not saying gas spins BH's up but the EU does mention BH's as a plasmoid/dense plasma focus instead of a division by zero error. :dl

Gas pressure from gravity?

 

[The Man]

Anyhoo, plasma is also liquids and gases, right.

Wrong, a fluid is not inherently a liquid and as far as I know a plasma certainly ain't a liquid (blood plasma not with standing).

Now that plasma now includes gases and liquids,

Nope didn't before and still doesn't "now".

what role do they play in a black hole being thought of as a high voltage electrical power generator feeding current down braided coaxial power cables?

as per



I mean, I'm not saying gas spins BH's up but the EU does mention BH's as a plasmoid/dense plasma focus instead of a division by zero error. :dl

Gas pressure from gravity?

Didn't we go over the membrane paradigm for blackholes last time I was here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_paradigm

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Fluid does not mean liquid. Both liquids and gases are fluids. Plasma is a subset of gas, gas is a subset of fluid.

You keep failing at the most basic levels.

Subsets remind me of grade school mathematics.

Small wonder Sol88 is confused.

Anyhoo, plasma is also liquids and gases, right.

Now that plasma now includes gases and liquids, what role do they play in a black hole being thought of as a high voltage electrical power generator feeding current down braided coaxial power cables?

Sorry, but my grade school education did not teach me how to braid plasma.

My memories of that era do include plasma lamps, invented by Nikola Tesla, refined and commercialized by James Falk and Bill Parker.

(I hope readers will forgive the previous paragraph's pop culture example of how plasma can be confined within a container.)

 

[Sol88]

Subsets remind me of grade school mathematics.

Small wonder Sol88 is confused.


Sorry, but my grade school education did not teach me how to braid plasma.

My memories of that era do include plasma lamps, invented by Nikola Tesla, refined and commercialized by James Falk and Bill Parker.

(I hope readers will forgive the previous paragraph's pop culture example of how plasma can be confined within a container.)

Where do they get the plasma to contain? Say a plasma ball for example.

 

[Sol88]

Wrong, a fluid is not inherently a liquid and as far as I know a plasma certainly ain't a liquid (blood plasma not with standing).



Nope didn't before and still doesn't "now".



Didn't we go over the membrane paradigm for blackholes last time I was here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_paradigm

All very confusing is it not?

Gases aren't plasma but are but all are fluids but not liquids. but... PLASMA has some extra properties.

These are quite interesting. For instance current driven instabilities in space plasma's

Relativistic jets and current driven instabilities

In the regime of strong magnetizations, in fact, the system can be well described by the force-free approximation.

In this limit, our simulation results are in agreement with the findings of Istomin & Pariev(1994), (1996) who have shown that a jet with a longitudinal electric current remains stable with respect to helical as well as axially symmetric (pinch) modes.

 

[Ziggurat]

All very confusing is it not?

You are literally the only person confused by this.

Gases aren't plasma

Just like rectangles are not squares.

but are but all are fluids but not liquids.

Do I need to draw you a Venn diagram? OK, fine:

Do you get it yet? Or do you not know how to interpret a Venn diagram?

 

[lauwenmark]

All very confusing is it not?

Not at all, it seems to be pretty clear for just about everybody (except yourself).

Gases aren't plasma but are

Plasma is a subset of gas, just like cats are a subset of felines.
Thus, all plasmas are gases, but not all gases are plasmas, just like all cats are felines, but not all felines are cats.

but all are fluids but not liquids.

You seem to believe that 'fluid' and 'liquid' are synonymous; they aren't.

but... PLASMA has some extra properties.

Yes, so where is that confusing at all?

These are quite interesting. For instance current driven instabilities in space plasma's

This has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

[lauwenmark]

Instead of showing ignorance about vocabulary, why don't you instead answer the pretty basic questions MRC_Hans asked you a few pages ago?

1) What ARE "mainstream electric universe ideas"?

2) How do they differ from the current paradigm?

3) What observations do they explain better than the current paradigm?

4) What evidence exists to support them?

So far, you failed to provide simple answers to those questions.

 

[Sol88]

Not at all, it seems to be pretty clear for just about everybody (except yourself).


Plasma is a subset of gas, just like cats are a subset of felines.
Thus, all plasmas are gases, but not all gases are plasmas, just like all cats are felines, but not all felines are cats.


You seem to believe that 'fluid' and 'liquid' are synonymous; they aren't.


Yes, so where is that confusing at all?


This has nothing to do with the discussion.

It has everything to do with the discussion.

Plasma maybe a subset of fluids, but nothing has the same properties as plasma.

Your fluid has led you to use MHD as a rough and incorrect assumptions on space gas.

This has led the mainstream into a dark corner. Plasma is not a gas. You still can’t grasp you can’t put plasma in a container. Show me one example where plasma has been generated and contained with no energy input?

Plasma has very special properties that mathematicians hate.

Astrophysical jets are electric current of plasma thru a plasma.

Edited by sarge: 

edited to remove uncivil content

 

[Sol88]

Instead of showing ignorance about vocabulary, why don't you instead answer the pretty basic questions MRC_Hans asked you a few pages ago?



So far, you failed to provide simple answers to those questions.

Read the paper and get back to me with a coherent answer.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.06025.pdf

However, the observations that we have reviewed suggest a rather different metaphor. Black holes are turbines that are spun up by orbiting gas to generate high voltage electrical power and AGN jets are lossy and glowing, coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings.

The’re still a little confused on how gas can do this majic.


Tell them about plasma and charge separation in astrophysical plasma’s.

 

[lauwenmark]

Read the paper and get back to me with a coherent answer.

No. Answer first the basics, and then we will all know what you have in mind. Let's remind you what those basics are:

1) What ARE "mainstream electric universe ideas"?

2) How do they differ from the current paradigm?

3) What observations do they explain better than the current paradigm?

4) What evidence exists to support them?

If you can't provide sensible and relevant answers for this, there is nothing to discuss.

Hans

How can you expect others to read the documents you propose and answer your questions if you never agree to do the same?

 

[lauwenmark]

Only simpletons would think plasma is a gas.

"Most cosmic plasma is a gas influenced by the presence of free electrons, charged atoms and dust."

- Wallace Thornhill, "Toward a Real Cosmology in the 21th Century"

So, you actually consider Thornhill to be a simpleton? Interesting.

 

[Sol88]

So gas is a plasma??

Space gas!

.

 

[Sol88]

No. Answer first the basics, and then we will all know what you have in mind. Let's remind you what those basics are:



How can you expect others to read the documents you propose and answer your questions if you never agree to do the same?

Mainstream now reckon BH are high voltage electrical power generators and AGN jets are lossy and glowing, coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings.


From uncle Wal

But most damning is that the narrow training of astrophysicists does not allow them to “see” the powerful electric discharge effects at the centers of galaxies. The x-rays, gamma rays, jets and radio lobes cry out for an electrical model. By simply invoking the electrical force, which is a thousand trillion trillion trillion times stronger than gravity, we can return to the realm of normal objects, normal physics, and common sense electrical engineering. The gravitational black hole model is fictional and worthless.

HOLOSCIENCE



So mainstream and uncle Wal are unto something with this plasma stuff. Space gas if you’d like.

 

[Sol88]

The PLASMA GUN at Galactic Centers
While astrophysicists have left the real universe for metaphysics, we must turn to practical engineers for some answers. The prestigious Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) has recognized the subject of plasma cosmology for some years. Plasma cosmology has no problem explaining the ubiquitous spiral shape of galaxies and reproducing it in the plasma laboratory. All that is required to produce the phenomenon is electrical power. Galaxies are threaded like pinwheels on invisible cosmic threads of electric current. Those cosmic threads are fundamental to the web-like appearance of the visible

uncle Wal


Mainstream science...have reviewed their observations and now think...

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.06025.pdf

However, the observations that we have reviewed suggest a rather different metaphor. Black holes are turbines that are spun up by orbiting gas to generate high voltage electrical power and AGN jets are lossy and glowing, coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings.

Space gas....

 

[Sol88]

Liquids and gasses are both classified as fluid (the intermolecular forces allow the molecules to more freely move and to flow) and hence are modeled as such.

Thus the H in MHD

ETA: A typical science class lab demonstration on the flow of a gas.

MHD has failed.

Liquids and gasses are both classified as fluid (the intermolecular forces allow the molecules to more freely move and to flow)

Not in a plasma though. Charged particles, including DUST (complex plasma) do not care for your intermolecular forces!

Reason a plasma is a plasma NOT a gas, subset or not.

I think we are calling it space gas to call everyone happy.

 

[Sol88]

No. Answer first the basics, and then we will all know what you have in mind. Let's remind you what those basics are:

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
1) What ARE "mainstream electric universe ideas"?

2) How do they differ from the current paradigm?

3) What observations do they explain better than the current paradigm?

4) What evidence exists to support them?

If you can't provide sensible and relevant answers for this, there is nothing to discuss.

Hans

On the first point

Plasma! Not gas.

Quote:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.06025.pdf

However, the observations that we have reviewed suggest a rather different metaphor. Black holes are turbines that are spun up by orbiting gas to generate high voltage electrical power and AGN jets are lossy and glowing, coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings.

Tell me more about this mainstream talk of jets as coaxial cables, glowing at that.

Is this an electric current? <rhetorical>

Or a big container of space gas?

 

[tusenfem]

Didn't we go over the membrane paradigm for blackholes last time I was here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_paradigm

Oh cool! That was my Master's thesis, using the membrane paradigm, a very interesting approach.

 

[tusenfem]

.

My memories of that era do include plasma lamps, invented by Nikola Tesla, refined and commercialized by James Falk and Bill Parker.

Woud that be a subset of Lava Lamps