The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 31

[Vixen]

No one here has ever, ever, said that there'd be no possibility that the two could be friends. That's part of the flooding of this thread with noise. You simply made it up.

The point was, the two weren't friends. Indeed, the first time Sollecito ever met Guede was in court.

Once again, please cite any proof of that ludicrous claim. You won't, not just because there is none - your whole purpose is simply to flood this thread with nonsense then move on.... your work is done without the cite, because factuality is not the point of the post.

We were talking about Knox. Why have you changed the subject to Sollecito?

 

[Stacyhs]

(snipped for being irrelevent)

Knox had one small issue found in her favour, amongst a whole plethora of stuff that was thrown out (such as the claim she was forced to name possible HIV infection partners and told she had a false positive result), and that was to do with having an interpreter.

Looks like the police weren't the only ones suffering from "amnesia":

One small issue? How about the findings that she was denied a lawyer which undermined the fairness of all that followed and her claim of abusive treatment was not investigated as required by law?

That doesn't nullify the fact the merits court before a jury, judges and lay judges found her guilty of aggravated murder and upheld on appeal.

More amnesia. Once again, you keep referring to the overturned...thrown out.. not legally relevent...Massei Court and ignoring that the pair were definitively acquitted.

There is nothing racist about that,

Who said there was?

However, the example another poster provided of a bent prosecutor was a classic example of what happens to Black defendants in the U.S.A.

This happens to SOME Black defendants, but it also happens to some WHITE defendants:

Herman Williams:

The Lake County State’s Attorney’s Office acknowledged that his 1994 conviction was based on scientifically unsupported forensic pathology testimony regarding the victim’s time of death, that the prosecution hid favorable evidence at his original trial, and that the detective who claimed Mr. Williams confessed is now known to have engaged in a pattern of misconduct, including securing false confessions and claiming suspects made admissions of guilt in other innocence cases. New evidence of Mr. Williams’ innocence also includes advanced DNA testing that excludes Mr. Williams from key biological evidence.

Daniel W. Moore:

Daniel Moore was convicted of capital murder in November 2002 and sentenced to death when the trial judge overrode the jury’s life verdict. After it became clear that a lawyer from the Attorney General’s office had lied to the judge and suppressed evidence that should have been turned over to the defense, Mr. Moore was granted a new trial, which ended in a mistrial. Prosecutors continued to withhold evidence favorable to Mr. Moore while pursuing a third trial. The jury in his third trial acquitted Mr. Moore of four counts of capital murder and intentional murder.

Randall Padgett:

In 1995, the Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals overturned his conviction because the State had suppressed exculpatory blood-typing evidence. Mr. Padgett was acquitted of all charges at a re-trial in 1997, where the defense presented evidence pointing to a third person as the perpetrator.

There are plenty more.

'Witnesses' are paid to testified against persons who can't be proven guilty in order to get them convicted. That is why so many Black American prisoners are being released after 40 years in solitary because their cases were invariably based on corrupt practices, such as all-white juries with the fore person picked by the judge. Prison guards coming from a long tradition of Klu Klux Klan families keeping down the generations of Black prisoners, jailed after 'three strikes', so could be in jail for life for relatively trivial offences. What drives this? Fear. There is none of this type of fear in Italy. However, the US press has simply taken it for granted - or expects it to be taken as the case, due to centuries of deep racist attitudes - that 'only the Black guy is guilty' and express outrage and denial at the thought that Knox could possibly have been a friend of the Black guy. You have seen it here.

Out of this word salad of the usual nonsense a couple of laughable things stand out:

"There is none of this type of fear in Italy."

Really?

Since the Court [ECHR] was established in 1959, the Court has delivered 24,511 judgments. More than a third of them have concerned 3 member States: Turkey (3,820), the Russian Federation (3,116) and Italy (2,466).

In more than 70% of the judgments delivered concerning Italy, the Court has given judgment against the State, finding at least one violation of the Convention

Over 60% of violations found concern Article 6 (right to a fair hearing), specifically the length or fairness of proceedings

https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Facts_Figures_Italy_ENG.pdf

"However, the US press has simply taken it for granted - or expects it to be taken as the case, due to centuries of deep racist attitudes - 'only the Black guy is guilty' "

What world are you living in because it certainly isn't the real one.


"...and express outrage and denial at the thought that Knox could possibly have been a friend of the Black guy. "

This is just pathetic.

"You have seen it here."

No, we haven't. It exists only in your vivid imagination.

 

[Bill Williams]

Read Albert Woodfox' Pullitzer Prize winning memoir 'Solitary'. George Jackson, Herman Wallace, Robert Hillary King.

Woodfox describes how some prisoner was given cigarettes for life and moved to a softer prison by a prison officer who wanted to secure a conviction against Woodfox so claimed he had witnessed him committing the crime. It only came out forty years later that the witness had been thus bribed So now we have the example from another poster of two more Black guys this week to whom this happened (names escape me) and is trying to claim that this is equivalent to a presumed bent Italian prosecutor.

As if that is a Q.E. D. that Mignini was bent.

More nonsense, flooding the thread with noise.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Once again you are evading the issue by whataboutism. If Italy is of the same brand of racism as the U.S.A. how come it prosecuted all three defendants regardless of ethnicity? Note the campaign to 'free Knox!' comes from the U.S.A., furious and uncomprehending that they didn't 'just pin it on the Black guy'.

This is complete and utter nonsense. STOP MAKING GARBAGE UP.

"If Italy is of the same brand of racism as the USA, how come it prosecuted all three defendants regardless of ethnicity?" JFC, YOU'RE THE ONE ASSERTING THAT THE USA IS SO RACIST THAT IT WOULD NEVER PROSECUTE A WHITE PERSON OVER A BLACK PERSON!!! Stop projecting your ridiculous BS onto others. You're entitled to your own imagination and wild speculation, we can't stop you, but you can't demand that we join you in your fantasy world.

 

[Numbers]

It is important to be aware that the ECHR and the Italian Penal system deals with two totally different aspects of law. The former deals with the law as it pertains to Human Rights and the later, Criminal Law. Thus, it is not mutually exclusive to have a finding in both. For example, in the case of the killing of Lee Rigby, the killer, Michael Adebowale, received a life sentence with a 'whole life' tariff (i.e., he will not be out after eight years except in a coffin). This character 'won' his case at the ECHR under Article 8, right to human/family life:

Mackrell

...whether or not the English courts accept it. So you can lose on the roundabout but win on the swings.

The key point is, one ruling doesn't cancel out the other. Knox had one small issue found in her favour, amongst a whole plethora of stuff that was thrown out (such as the claim she was forced to name possible HIV infection partners and told she had a false positive result), and that was to do with having an interpreter.

That doesn't nullify the fact the merits court before a jury, judges and lay judges found her guilty of aggravated murder and upheld on appeal.

There is nothing racist about that,

However, the example another poster provided of a bent prosecutor was a classic example of what happens to Black defendants in the U.S.A. 'Witnesses' are paid to testified against persons who can't be proven guilty in order to get them convicted. That is why so many Black American prisoners are being released after 40 years in solitary because their cases were invariably based on corrupt practices, such as all-white juries with the fore person picked by the judge. Prison guards coming from a long tradition of Klu Klux Klan families keeping down the generations of Black prisoners, jailed after 'three strikes', so could be in jail for life for relatively trivial offences. What drives this? Fear. There is none of this type of fear in Italy. However, the US press has simply taken it for granted - or expects it to be taken as the case, due to centuries of deep racist attitudes - that 'only the Black guy is guilty' and express outrage and denial at the thought that Knox could possibly have been a friend of the Black guy. You have seen it here.

Vixen, statements in your post display obfuscation and/or ignorance.

It seems that you are unaware or choose to ignore that the European Convention of Human Rights, in Article 6, guarantees the right to a fair trial. This applies to both civil and criminal trials.

Furthermore, Italy is obligated by its signature to the Convention treaty and its Constitution to follow the final judgments (case law) of the ECHR. In other words, the Convention and the ECHR case law constitute international law that Italy has obligated itself to follow.

Italy is also obligated to follow its own laws, including the provisions of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, including, for example, the provision requiring a lawyer during the questioning of a suspect or of a witness who becomes a suspect during questioning and the provision prohibiting the use of methods that override the free will of a person during questioning.

Therefore, when Italy unfairly subjected Knox to a criminal trial (accompanied by a civil trial on the same facts) on the charge of calunnia [malicious accusation] against Lumumba, and unfairly convicted her, it violated international law and its own procedural law.

Under the provisions of the Convention treaty, it is Italy's responsibility to correct its violations of Knox's rights to restore her status to that that had existed prior to the violations of Convention Articles 6.1 with 6.3c and Articles 6.1 with 6.3e and of Convention Article 3 in its procedural branch. Furthermore, it is Italy's responsibility to modify its laws and or practices to provide that it does not commit similar violations in the future.

 

[Welshman]

No it is not. Read the Micheli report. He was the judge who sentenced Guede. His clear finding of fact is that Guede was an accessory to aggravated murder in cohorts with others. It states word by word that whilst others brought out knives he did nothing to stop it and indulged in sexual assault.

Yes, it is as horrible as the Charles Manson Atkins woman who held LaBianca's arms behind her back as her brutal 'Family' companion stabbed LaBianca to death.

Likewise, the merits courts found that Knox inflicted the fatal wound into Mez' neck, a vicious upward slicing movement which broke her hyoid bone and that Sollecito inflicted the secondary stabs on the other side of her neck with a different sized knife. The latter pair returned to stage a burglary and pose the body to make it look like a rape-murder. Sollecito's DNA was found on the victim's bra.

These are the findings of legal fact and as reiterated by the final Supreme Court who annulled the sentences for Knox and Sollecito on the grounds of 'insufficent evidence', a little used loophole for obvious reasons and obviously thanks to backchannelling by the US State Department, Knox having flown and the USA openly saying it would not extradite.

So not imagination but a matter of fact.


As for Italy being a racist country, nobody said they were not. However, they have not colonised Roma or Africans in their own country for four hundred years, as the U.S.A. has. I am sorry of you are offended but when another poster claims that because a prosecutor in the U.S.A. paid a witness in order to secure a conviction for a couple of Black guys that person really shoud have known that really is something that has been common practice in the U.S.A., especially in Louisiana, so not a 'Gotcha!' about Italy at all. In fact, it was a stupid example and showed a stupendous level of ignorance about their own country and its history.

As if Italy is equivalent to the U.S.A. when it comes to corrupt prosecutors and an inequitable justice system.


Maybe you are demanding that Italy should be similarly inequitable because that is your default perception.

Guede raped Meredith which as proved by the discovery of Guede's DNA in Meredith's vagina. It is sign of the gross stupidity of PGP the are still making the absurd claim that Amanda and Raffaele needed to stage a rape when Guede had already raped Meredith.

 

[Bill Williams]

We were talking about Knox. Why have you changed the subject to Sollecito?

Ok, you've got a partial point.

Topic was as defined by you, was that people in this thread had said the Knox wouldn't be a friend of Guede's.

You gave no citation, you just made the claim.

The evidence is, though, is that Knox and Guede were barely acquaintances. So your claim about what some did or didn't claim here is irrelevant.

Point being, you're trying to defend a notion that three people committed a crime together, two of whom had never met, and two of whom had barely met. The last two person pair had only known each other for a week!

So, the actual topic was the silly notion that some here were claiming....

Oh, never mind. All this is noise that I'm now getting sucked into.....

 

[Stacyhs]

No it is not. Read the Micheli report. He was the judge who sentenced Guede. His clear finding of fact is that Guede was an accessory to aggravated murder in cohorts with others. It states word by word that whilst others brought out knives he did nothing to stop it and indulged in sexual assault.

LOL! Why do you insist on quoting things that have since been disproved? It was a 'fact' to people at one time that the sun revolved around the earth. Do you still cling to that as fact? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYONE IN THAT BEDROOM EXCEPT FOR GUEDE and the KNIFE IS NOT THE MURDER WEAPON. Unless, of course, you think the killer(s) could be those two unidentified men whose DNA was found on Kercher's bra hook?

Yes, it is as horrible as the Charles Manson Atkins woman who held LaBianca's arms behind her back as her brutal 'Family' companion stabbed LaBianca to death.

Do try and stay on topic. This has zero to do with anything we are discussing.

Likewise, the merits courts found that Knox inflicted the fatal wound into Mez' neck, a vicious upward slicing movement which broke her hyoid bone and that Sollecito inflicted the secondary stabs on the other side of her neck with a different sized knife. The latter pair returned to stage a burglary and pose the body to make it look like a rape-murder. Sollecito's DNA was found on the victim's bra.

And 3...2...1....we're back to the overturned, thrown out first court. Are you stuck in a 2009 time warp?

These are the findings of legal fact and as reiterated by the final Supreme Court who annulled the sentences for Knox and Sollecito on the grounds of 'insufficent evidence',

OH..so the M-B SC found that Knox inflicted the fatal wound and Sollecito also stabbed her, and they staged the burglary and posed the body, and RS's DNA was on the bra? I guess that explains why they're sitting in prison now, right?

a little used loophole for obvious reasons and obviously thanks to backchannelling by the US State Department, Knox having flown and the USA openly saying it would not extradite.

Right...acquittals for finding the evidence was BARD is a "little used loophole" in Italy! You can provide evidence of...oh, never mind. We all know you can't.

So not imagination but a matter of fact.

If these are facts, then you can quote and cite evidence that there was "backchannelling by the US State Department" and of the "USA openly saying it would not extradite". Go on...do it. The only thing you got right was that Knox flew home as she was legally allowed to do after being acquitted. Of course, you can always claim again it was on a private/chartered plane again.

As for Italy being a racist country, nobody said they were not. However, they have not colonised Roma or Africans in their own country for four hundred years, as the U.S.A. has.

You do realize that slavery was abolished in the US 157 years ago? However, in practice, it appears to be flourishing in Southern Italy:

Italy: Modern slavery conditions found in farms producing for international supermarkets

Inside African migrants’ fight against ‘slave-like’ conditions in Italy

If you'd prefer a video instead of reading articles:

Italy’s Secret Slavery: Hundreds of Indians, Mostly Sikhs, Enslaved Under Horrific Conditions

I am sorry of you are offended but when another poster claims that because a prosecutor in the U.S.A. paid a witness in order to secure a conviction for a couple of Black guys that person really shoud have known that really is something that has been common practice in the U.S.A., especially in Louisiana, so not a 'Gotcha!' about Italy at all.
In fact, it was a stupid example and showed a stupendous level of ignorance about their own country and its history.

Please link to the post where this is claimed. If you do not, I can only conclude that it didn't happen. The only poster I seeing claiming this is you.

As if Italy is equivalent to the U.S.A. when it comes to corrupt prosecutors and an inequitable justice system.

And yet you are the one who keeps claiming that all the acquitting judges and defense experts were "bent" or "paid off" or corrupt in some way. You are the one who claimed Popovic was "covering" for Raffaele by lying about the suitcase. You are the one who said "Her Lawyer Vedova was lining his pockets."
In response to this "...anyone not supporting the guilt view is due to someone being 'bent', 'incompetent', or a 'shill'. Only the prosecutors, police, scientific police, prosecution experts, and convicting judges are honest and competent," you replied "It's a good rule of thumb."

I do wish you'd make up your mind if Italy's judges, police, and prosecutors are paragons of virtue compared to the US or if they're the bent and corrupt puppets of the US State Dept.

Maybe you are demanding that Italy should be similarly inequitable because that is your default perception.

Maybe you should stop trying to gaslight us with your nonsense.

 

[Vixen]

Looks like the police weren't the only ones suffering from "amnesia":

One small issue? How about the findings that she was denied a lawyer which undermined the fairness of all that followed and her claim of abusive treatment was not investigated as required by law?



More amnesia. Once again, you keep referring to the overturned...thrown out.. not legally relevent...Massei Court and ignoring that the pair were definitively acquitted.



Who said there was?



This happens to SOME Black defendants, but it also happens to some WHITE defendants:

Herman Williams:

Daniel W. Moore:
Randall Padgett:

There are plenty more.



Out of this word salad of the usual nonsense a couple of laughable things stand out:

"There is none of this type of fear in Italy."

Really?

Since the Court [ECHR] was established in 1959, the Court has delivered 24,511 judgments. More than a third of them have concerned 3 member States: Turkey (3,820), the Russian Federation (3,116) and Italy (2,466).



https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Facts_Figures_Italy_ENG.pdf

"However, the US press has simply taken it for granted - or expects it to be taken as the case, due to centuries of deep racist attitudes - 'only the Black guy is guilty' "

What world are you living in because it certainly isn't the real one.


"...and express outrage and denial at the thought that Knox could possibly have been a friend of the Black guy. "

This is just pathetic.

"You have seen it here."

No, we haven't. It exists only in your vivid imagination.

Stop confusing cases that were overturned because of Brady vs Maryland: withholding exculpatory evidence and 'the attorney lied in court'. That has zippo to do with bent prosecutors who deliberately pick on a random innocent bystander. People get their cases overturned all the time on points of law. It doesn't follow that the 'prosecutor was bent'.

Do you have any evidence at all that Mignini committed a criminal wrongdoing against Knox? A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[Bill Williams]

We were talking about Knox. Why have you changed the subject to Sollecito?

Actually, we were talking about your unreferenced claim that someone here said that Knox wouldn't be friends with a person of colour.

You could keep us on topic by showing us who said it, and what they said.

 

[Vixen]

Guede raped Meredith which as proved by the discovery of Guede's DNA in Meredith's vagina. It is sign of the gross stupidity of PGP the are still making the absurd claim that Amanda and Raffaele needed to stage a rape when Guede had already raped Meredith.

Oh I see. The evidence against Knox and Sollecito was contaminated but not the evidence against Guede.

 

[Welshman]

Ok, you've got a partial point.

Topic was as defined by you, was that people in this thread had said the Knox wouldn't be a friend of Guede's.

You gave no citation, you just made the claim.

The evidence is, though, is that Knox and Guede were barely acquaintances. So your claim about what some did or didn't claim here is irrelevant.

Point being, you're trying to defend a notion that three people committed a crime together, two of whom had never met, and two of whom had barely met. The last two person pair had only known each other for a week!

So, the actual topic was the silly notion that some here were claiming....

Oh, never mind. All this is noise that I'm now getting sucked into.....

Vixen constantly bangs about how Amanda, Raffaele and Guede committed murder together. I have asked Vixen if this scenario is credible why are there so many holes in it as per my list below. I am still awaiting for an answer.

• Amanda barely knew Rudy, Raffaele did not know Rudy at all and Amanda and Raffaele had only been dating six days. Three virtual strangers came together to commit a brutal sex crazed murder.

• Amanda only had brief contact with Guede and in six years the prosecution could not find any evidence of regular contact with Amanda and Guede and Raffaele had never met Guede. Despite this they were able to plan a murder.

• As the links below show witness testimony stated Amanda had a good relationship with Meredith and no evidence has existed Amanda had any animosity towards Meredith. Despite this Amanda was prepared to help a stranger carry out a brutal sexual assault and murder against Meredith.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda...ehavior-myths/

• The phones of Amanda and Raffaele were tapped in the three days between the discovery of Meredith’s body and the interrogations. Despite this Amanda and Raffaele make no mention of Rudy a man they were supposed to have committed a brutal murder and sexual assault with.

• Amanda spoke only basic Italian and Rudy did not speak English. Despite this Amanda and Rudy were able to plan a murder together.

• There is no contact between Amanda and Raffaele with Rudy after the murder. Is it credible that people could committ a brutal sexual assault and murder together and never contact each other again.

• As per the link below, the evidence which should have existed if Amanda and Rafffaele killed Meredith with Rudy is missing.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html

• A woman was supposedly willing to help a stranger carry out a brutal sexual assault and murder against another woman. A scenario with no known precedent.

• The evidence against Guede was solid, credible and irrefutable as seen in the link below.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/rudy-guede/

The evidence against Amanda and Raffaele was full of holes and had no credibility. The knife was an example of this as can be seen from my post below. If Amanda, Raffaele and Guede committed the same crime together, how is the difference in the quality of the evidence explained?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7#post11377317

• The methods the prosecution had to resort to with regards to Amanda and Raffaele were clearly the methods prosecutors would resort to when they have a weak case, lack of evidence and the facts don’t support their case as can be seen from the links below. The prosecution didn’t have to resort to these tactics when it came to Guede which indicated the prosecution had plenty of evidence and a slam dunk case. How is this massive difference explained if Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy committed the same crime?


http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/raffaeles-kitchen-knife/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/contam...bwork-coverup/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/meredi...ry-corruption/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/evidence-destroyed/
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/blood-...irs-apartment/
https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4#post11071314
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4#post11071314

• The evidence suggests Meredith was killed between 9.00 pm and 10.00 pm. Raffaele was using his computer at 9.10 pm and 9.26 pm which gives them an alibi for the time Guede murdered Meredith.

• The posts below show some of the falsehoods by Vixen in her posts showing PGP have to resort to lying to argue the case for Amanda and Raffaele’s guilt. I have never heard anyone resorting to lying to argue the case for Rudy’s guilt. How is this difference explained if Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy committed the same crime?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11938562
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11942852
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2#post11598412
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post11427461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893

 

[Stacyhs]

We were talking about Knox. Why have you changed the subject to Sollecito?

So is Bill. He just added Raffaele. Try being a bit less obvious.

 

[Bill Williams]

Do you have any evidence at all that Mignini committed a criminal wrongdoing against Knox? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Mignini was sanctioned by his professional association for denying Sollecito his rights.

Once Italy complies with the ECHR ruling, it will be interesting to see what further sanctions await him. Criminal? Probably not. He was charged criminally in the Narducci affair. That one lapsed because of a time limit.

It's an interesting question, though. There is actual evidence that he committed something untoward....

 

[Vixen]

LOL! Why do you insist on quoting things that have since been disproved? It was a 'fact' to people at one time that the sun revolved around the earth. Do you still cling to that as fact? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYONE IN THAT BEDROOM EXCEPT FOR GUEDE and the KNIFE IS NOT THE MURDER WEAPON. Unless, of course, you think the killer(s) could be those two unidentified men whose DNA was found on Kercher's bra hook?



Do try and stay on topic. This has zero to do with anything we are discussing.



And 3...2...1....we're back to the overturned, thrown out first court. Are you stuck in a 2009 time warp?



OH..so the M-B SC found that Knox inflicted the fatal wound and Sollecito also stabbed her, and they staged the burglary and posed the body, and RS's DNA was on the bra? I guess that explains why they're sitting in prison now, right?



Right...acquittals for finding the evidence was BARD is a "little used loophole" in Italy! You can provide evidence of...oh, never mind. We all know you can't.





If these are facts, then you can quote and cite evidence that there was "backchannelling by the US State Department" and of the "USA openly saying it would not extradite". Go on...do it. The only thing you got right was that Knox flew home as she was legally allowed to do after being acquitted. Of course, you can always claim again it was on a private/chartered plane again.




You do realize that slavery was abolished in the US 157 years ago? However, in practice, it appears to be flourishing in Southern Italy:

Italy: Modern slavery conditions found in farms producing for international supermarkets

Inside African migrants’ fight against ‘slave-like’ conditions in Italy

If you'd prefer a video instead of reading articles:

Italy’s Secret Slavery: Hundreds of Indians, Mostly Sikhs, Enslaved Under Horrific Conditions





Please link to the post where this is claimed. If you do not, I can only conclude that it didn't happen. The only poster I seeing claiming this is you.



And yet you are the one who keeps claiming that all the acquitting judges and defense experts were "bent" or "paid off" or corrupt in some way. You are the one who claimed Popovic was "covering" for Raffaele by lying about the suitcase. You are the one who said "Her Lawyer Vedova was lining his pockets."
In response to this "...anyone not supporting the guilt view is due to someone being 'bent', 'incompetent', or a 'shill'. Only the prosecutors, police, scientific police, prosecution experts, and convicting judges are honest and competent," you replied "It's a good rule of thumb."

I do wish you'd make up your mind if Italy's judges, police, and prosecutors are paragons of virtue compared to the US or if they're the bent and corrupt puppets of the US State Dept.




Maybe you should stop trying to gaslight us with your nonsense.

Here we go again. All the evidence against Knox and Sollecito was contaminated but not the evidence collected against Guede, collected the same time by the same forensics team and analysed in the same laboratories by the same scientists and as witnessed by the defence's expert witnesses, who never complained at the time. Do you see your lack of consistency here?

You wrote:

"Well, actually, dishonest prosecutors have been found to have done exactly that in some cases. Example: the Stanley Mozee and Dennis Allen case (the prosecutor surrendered his law license in lieu of being officially disbarred) for withholding exculpatory evidence and lying about evidence."

Fact:

"their joint convictions were rooted in unreliable jailhouse informant testimony, a false confession and substantial prosecutorial misconduct. "
https://innocenceproject.org/stanle...d-actually-innocent-after-15-years-in-prison/

Do try to understand the points of law you ae making.

 

[Vixen]

Mignini was sanctioned by his professional association for denying Sollecito his rights.

Once Italy complies with the ECHR ruling, it will be interesting to see what further sanctions await him. Criminal? Probably not. He was charged criminally in the Narducci affair. That one lapsed because of a time limit.

It's an interesting question, though. There is actual evidence that he committed something untoward....

Yes, that was his office. Forgot to give him a written copy of something. A clerical error and Sollecito went after him out of vindictiveness.

You guys are absolutely desperate to claim Mignini is a crook and I notice Anne Bremner did so in her tv interview plugging her book. So any old lie to pretend Knox is innocent and the victim of a bent prosecutor.

Live in the real world. Come out of your fantasy.

 

[Bill Williams]

Oh I see. The evidence against Knox and Sollecito was contaminated but not the evidence against Guede.

Essentially yes. There was no credible evidence placing either AK or RS in the room at the time of the murder. There was plenty placing Guede there.

 

[Vixen]

Actually, we were talking about your unreferenced claim that someone here said that Knox wouldn't be friends with a person of colour.

You could keep us on topic by showing us who said it, and what they said.

No way, José. I'll be accused of calling that person/those persons a racist were I to point out any of those claims. Heaven forfend!

 

[Vixen]

Essentially yes. There was no credible evidence placing either AK or RS in the room at the time of the murder. There was plenty placing Guede there.

Er, would that be the same team that made a total mess of Knox' and Sollecito's evidence...?

 

[Stacyhs]

Once again you are evading the issue by whataboutism.

Sigh. Please, Vix. You're an intelligent person so don't resort to this kind of nonsense.

If Italy is of the same brand of racism as the U.S.A. how come it prosecuted all three defendants regardless of ethnicity? .

Sigh again. Because they dug themselves into a hole. They couldn't arrest Lumumba without Knox's "confession" that she'd taken him to the cottage. They couldn't arrest Knox without arresting Sollecito because he was her alibi.
They couldn't let the two go after boxing themselves in with their self-aggrandizing public declaration on Nov. 6 even after the initial forensics came back with zero evidence of either in the murder room or they'd lose face.

Note the campaign to 'free Knox!' comes from the U.S.A.,

Where would you expect it to come from? Outer Mongolia? And where did the "Justice for 'our girl' " campaign come from? Why....shockingly, the UK.

furious and uncomprehending that they didn't 'just pin it on the Black guy'

Please stop resorting to the Big Lie tactic that repeating a lie often enough will eventually make people believe it. You're here, not at a Trump rally.

You keep claiming the evidence gathering was deficient and the DNA evidence contaminated. WAIT_!

No, dear...that was the Hellmann Court and the Marasca-Bruno Supreme Court.

The forensics team who collected the evidence, finger, foot and hand prints and D.N.A. that convicted Guede are...exactly the same forensic team that collected the scientific evidence against Knox and Sollecito at the same time as Guede's and used the same laboratory and same scientists. So this was all right and proper for Guede but bent for Knox and Sollecito!!!

You really must be suffering from amnesia. It's that or just plain old willful blindness.
Yep...same team. But was Guede's LCN found in multiple places in the bedroom including on the body? Yes. Was it LC-DNA? No. Was his palm/fingerprint found in blood? Yes. Were his shoe prints found in blood? Yes. Did Guede ever claim it wasn't his DNA or finger or shoe prints? No. Did AK or RS ever deny the fingerprints were theirs? No. Were any found in blood? No. Were Knox's foot/shoe prints found in blood? No. Is there video of the police touching forensic evidence against Guede with visibly dirty gloves? No. Did any forensic expert testify that the evidence against Guede was faulty in any way? No. Did forensic experts testify that knife and bra hook testing and results were faulty? Absolutely.

The total lack of logic and contradictory claims either indicates you cannot see your own lack of logic or, more likely, you see it only too clearly but heck, who cares.

I'd say you're the one with the lack of logic. You are coming dangerously close to accusing me of knowingly supporting murderers. Do. Not. Do. That.

Sentimentality, patriotism and a fantasy about corrupt prosecutors are king. **** truth, logic, facts, chronology, scientific evidence and reality.

Cue sophistry and semantics.