Electric universe theories here.

[Sol88]

No, we cannot. Neither can we "add that to 4".
First you need a consistent base for your "theory of EU", you cannot just willy-nilly add some sentences of which you don't even understand what they mean.

You are supposed to be here THE expert on EU (now that Zeuzz, michealsuede, Micheal Mozina are gone and I think even Lerner and Thornhill were here for a few weeks).

Why can you not point us to actual EU literature, where it is shown that gravity does not work and everything is a z-pinch and currents are driving the power of the stars? Why can all "EU science" only be done by youtube?

Ah well, back to my own paper, that needs finishing too.

currents are driving the power of the stars Your selling yourself short here champ, think bigger!

Who said gravity does not work?

Mainstream, peer reviewed scientific paper.... Relativistic Jets in Active
Galactic Nuclei

Finding...to discuss Jets can have a major influence on their environments, stimulating and limiting the growth of galaxies

Major influence as compared to gravity. Which force dominates wrt "jets"?

 

[Sol88]

No, we cannot. Neither can we "add that to 4".
First you need a consistent base for your "theory of EU", you cannot just willy-nilly add some sentences of which you don't even understand what they mean.

You are supposed to be here THE expert on EU (now that Zeuzz, michealsuede, Micheal Mozina are gone and I think even Lerner and Thornhill were here for a few weeks).

Why can you not point us to actual EU literature, where it is shown that gravity does not work and everything is a z-pinch and currents are driving the power of the stars? Why can all "EU science" only be done by youtube?

Ah well, back to my own paper, that needs finishing too.

Mainstream paper, no EU nonsense...4.1. Particle Acceleration

Even if a jet is well-modeled at the level of continuum mechanics, we must still explain where and how the emitting relativistic particles are accelerated and how they are transported before they cool.

So how do they think they are accelerated? Oh...

A charged particle gains energy at a rate eEc when exposed to a electric field of strength E. If the field varies slowly, the acceleration is called electrostatic

tusenfem, in space plasma's can an electric field powerful enough to sustain "jets" '00's kpc long form?

Just a simple yes/no will do.

 

[Sol88]

"cause this mob seem stuck still...

"In our theory, we assume that the particles are accelerated by the enormous turbulence and shocks produced during the formation of the cluster. In turn, these motions can also amplify the magnetic fields."

Not electric fields, tusenfem?

By doing so, they hope to learn more about the so-called cosmic web that interconnects clusters of galaxies.

The cosmic web? Of plasma coaxial power cables?

Gas or plasma?

 

[Sol88]

Excellent thread summary.

Still giggling...gas or plasma, Steve?

excuse the girly giggles...particles are accelerated by the enormous turbulence and shocks

 

[Ziggurat]

Plasma or gas?

Give me your definition of each.

 

[Sol88]

Give me your definition of each.

Plasma: Free charged particles, usually in equal numbers, such as ions and electrons. Unlike gases, plasma may self-generate magnetic fields and electric currents and respond strongly and collectively to electromagnetic forces. Plasma is very uncommon on Earth (except for the ionosphere), although it is the most common state of matter in the universe.[1]

Gas: A compressible fluid. Not only will a gas take the shape of its container but it will also expand to fill the container.

Fair call?

LOFAR antennas unveil giant glow of radio emission surrounding cluster of galaxies

Between the galaxies, there is rarefied gas of high-energy particles and magnetic fields. Little is known about the origin of this gas and how the particles and magnetic fields influence each other.

Gas? gas will take the shape of its container but it will also expand to fill the container... what is the container in space?

 

[Sol88]

Plasma is a state of matter that is often thought of as a subset of gases, but the two states behave very differently. Like gases, plasmas have no fixed shape or volume, and are less dense than solids or liquids. But unlike ordinary gases, plasmas are made up of atoms in which some or all of the electrons have been stripped away and positively charged nuclei, called ions, roam freely.

"A gas is made of neutral molecules and atoms," said Xuedong Hu, a professor of physics at the University at Buffalo. That is, the number of negatively charged electrons equals the number of positively charged protons.

"Plasma is a charged gas, with strong Coulomb [or electrostatic] interactions," Hu told Live Science. Atoms or molecules can acquire a positive or negative electrical charge when they gain or lose electrons. This process is called ionization. Plasma makes up the sun and stars, and it is the most common state of matter in the universe as a whole.

PLASMA

Bit more clarity for you. Maybe for the confused as well,

Between the galaxies, there is rarefied gas of high-energy particles and magnetic fields. Little is known about the origin of this gas and how the particles and magnetic fields influence each other.

Sounds like a plasma to me, but hey!

 

[Sol88]

Gas is a state of matter that has no fixed shape and no fixed volume. Gases have a lower density than other states of matter, such as solids and liquids. There is a great deal of empty space between particles, which have a lot of kinetic energy and aren’t particularly attracted to one another. Gas particles move very fast and collide with one another, causing them to diffuse, or spread out until they are evenly distributed throughout the volume of the container.

According to the educational website Lumen Learning (opens in new tab) gas can only be contained by either being fully surrounded by a container or held together by gravity.

When more gas particles enter a container, there is less space for the particles to spread out, and they become compressed. The particles exert more force on the interior volume of the container. This force is called pressure. There are several units used to express pressure. Some of the most common are atmospheres (atm), pounds per square inch (psi), millimeters of mercury (mmHg) and pascals (Pa). The units relate to one another this way: 1 atm = 14.7 psi = 760 mmHg = 101.3 kPa (1,000 pascals).

Would this

Between the galaxies, there is rarefied gas of high-energy particles and magnetic fields.

rarefied gas of high-energy particles, respond to a magnetic field?

A plasma most definitely would.

 

[Sol88]

So as you can plainly see, GAS and PLASMA behave very differently.

Why use them interchangeably, tusenfem?

 

[tusenfem]

What is doing what in a plasma and magnetic field?
That is all dependent on the plasma-β, the ratio of the plasma(gas) pressure:

P_gas = Σ_j n_j k_B T_j

where j are the different species of the plasma/gas (i.e. you should know how much of the gas is ionized), n is the density, T is the temperature and k_B is Bolzmann's constant,
and the magnetic pressure:

P_mag = B²/2μ₀

where B is the magnetic field strength and μ₀ is the permeability of vacuum.

β = P_gas / P_mag

So now you can have 2 situations, β > 1 and β < 1, which lead to completely different situations. In the first case the gas pressure dominates the dynamics of the plasma and the magnetic field has to follow whatever the gas wants to do. And of course the other way around when it is less then 1.

The value of β also has influence on plasma instabilities, for example, if you have pick-up of freshly created ions, they will create a ring-distribution (they gyrate around the magnetic field) then depending on β you get either the creation of ion cyclotron waves (low β) or mirror modes (high β).

One can also see it in a different way. If the magnetic field is weak and the energy of the charged particles is high, then the Larmor radius of the charged particle with be very large. This means that the charged particle is not really bothered by the presence of the magnetic field (the case e.g. for the singing comet).
The other way around, if the magnetic field is strong and the energy of the particles is small, then they will be forced to gyrate in small circles and they cannot but follow whatever the magnetic field is doing.

Well, I am sure that in the 20+ years that this and other EU threads have been running I have explained this already several times.

Plasma is not easy, you cannot just copypaste the lines from one paper to another without checking if you are dealing with the same kind of plasma.

Ah well, back to my magnetic holes.

 

[steenkh]

Plasma: Free charged particles, usually in equal numbers, such as ions and electrons. Unlike gases, plasma may self-generate magnetic fields and electric currents and respond strongly and collectively to electromagnetic forces. Plasma is very uncommon on Earth (except for the ionosphere), although it is the most common state of matter in the universe.[1]

Gas: A compressible fluid. Not only will a gas take the shape of its container but it will also expand to fill the container.

Fair call?

Explain why plasma cannot be a subset of gas.

Gas? gas will take the shape of its container but it will also expand to fill the container... what is the container in space?

I thought you of all people would recognise the ability of electric fields to contain plasma.

 

[Ziggurat]

Gas: A compressible fluid. Not only will a gas take the shape of its container but it will also expand to fill the container.

Forget about space for a moment, we'll come back to it next. Just within the context of gases and plasmas here on earth, in a lab.

How is a plasma not also a gas? What criteria of gasses do plasmas not fulfill? They are compressible fluids. They will expand to fill their container. Sounds like a gas to me. Can we agree that, on earth, plasmas act like gasses? Sure, they're not just any old gas, but they are still a gas according to this definition, are they not?

 

[Sol88]

What happens after the plasma comes into contact with the container walls? Would it remain a plasma?

How do you keep it a plasma “to put it in a container” a plasma? Even here on earth.

Far as I can work out you can’t keep plasma in a container. Unlike a gas, liquid and even solids.

 

[Sol88]

Explain why plasma cannot be a subset of gas.


I thought you of all people would recognise the ability of electric fields to contain plasma.

Electric fields in space, you say. I’m all ears...

 

[Sol88]

plasma(gas) pressure:

tusenfem

They are compressible fluids. They will expand to fill their container. Sounds like a gas to me. Can we agree that, on earth, plasmas act like gasses? Sure, they're not just any old gas, but they are still a gas according to this definition, are they not?

What is the container in your plasma(gas) pressure scenario?

In space gas/plasma what acts as the containers so there can be pressure. Space is close enough to a vacuum last I heard.

 

[Ziggurat]

What happens after the plasma comes into contact with the container walls? Would it remain a plasma?

How is that relevant? If you put a typical gas in a cold enough container, the gas will condense against the sides of the container, and so it won't remain a gas either. That doesn't make gas not gas. And it doesn't make plasma not a gas either.

Far as I can work out you can’t keep plasma in a container.

Sure you can. Ever heard of a Tokamak?

What kind of container you need to use isn't part of the definition of a gas.

 

[Sol88]

If you put a typical gas in a cold enough container, the gas will condense against the sides of the container, and so it won't remain a gas either.

It will condense from a gas to a liquid...and won’t “fill” the container like a gas. We agree!

How does the tommahawk keep the plasma a plasma and not a gas? As per the same analogy as above.

Could you keep the gas container using a magnetic field? Like in space where there is no container...and not much gas.

Lotsa PLASMA though.

 

[Sol88]

Sure you can. Ever heard of a Tokamak?

yes


Where do they get the plasma to put in this “container” so the plasma becomes a gas/plasma?

Next to the bottles of Argon out the back? Maybe in the cryogenic hydrogen (a liquified gas) bottles?

Never seen a “plasma bottle”.

 

[Sol88]

Is this the same gas you talk about when you mean plasma?

LOFAR antennas unveil giant glow of radio emission surrounding cluster of galaxies

Quote:
Between the galaxies, there is rarefied gas of high-energy particles and magnetic fields. Little is known about the origin of this gas and how the particles and magnetic fields influence each other.

Now we are back in space talking about space gas, is this rarefied high energy particle space gas actually a plasma?

 

[Sol88]

I think, ziggurat, you have answered the mystery of space gas...it’s a plasma.

So, why use gas, again? Wrt space gas.(plasma)