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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 31

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Vixen said:
I get that there is no legislation that prescribes a pro-forma for issuing a complaint against police brutality. The point I was making is that you do need to make it clear it is a complaint and not just a generalised rant in a rambling letter.
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Why not "just as a generalized rant in a rambling letter"?

Vixen, you need to pick a lane. Mignini told author John Follain that he was compelled to arrest Lumumba based on Knox's ramblings at interrogation. Indeed, that's the law, that when the PM becomes aware of a crime, regardless of the 'form' in which it was expressed, he has to act.

Indeed, Mignini had also just told Follain that he regarded Knox as a liar.

Which is why when Knox complained about being the victim of a crime, namely being hit at interrogation, Mignini did nothing to investigate that. He waited until she repeated it at trial, then SLAPPed her with a defamation charge, which he again said was required.....

..... even though NONE of the people presumably defamed uttered a word about it. So much so that none of them even showed up at the first hearing about it - which is why Mignini's SLAPP died on the vine.

Vixen, please pick a lane with what you claim. Please!
 
Bill Williams said:
Why not "just as a generalized rant in a rambling letter"?

Vixen, you need to pick a lane. Mignini told author John Follain that he was compelled to arrest Lumumba based on Knox's ramblings at interrogation. Indeed, that's the law, that when the PM becomes aware of a crime, regardless of the 'form' in which it was expressed, he has to act.

Indeed, Mignini had also just told Follain that he regarded Knox as a liar.

Which is why when Knox complained about being the victim of a crime, namely being hit at interrogation, Mignini did nothing to investigate that. He waited until she repeated it at trial, then SLAPPed her with a defamation charge, which he again said was required.....

..... even though NONE of the people presumably defamed uttered a word about it. So much so that none of them even showed up at the first hearing about it - which is why Mignini's SLAPP died on the vine.

Vixen, please pick a lane with what you claim. Please!
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Bill Williams, is this fully accurate?

IIUC, after Knox made her statements describing the interrogation of 5/6 November in testimony before the Massei court, Mignini asked Judge Massei to have a transcript of the testimony sent to his office, and he began a prosecution of Knox for calunnia against the police.

Initially, many of the police officers involved in the interrogation had joined the prosecution as civil parties, but a number of them -not all - dropped their civil action as the calunnia against the police case proceeded. When the case was forwarded from Perugia to Florence to avoid a conflict of interest, Mignini's name was added as one of those allegedly maliciously accused [subjected to calunnia] by Knox, for both criminal and civil cases.

The trial resulted in a final acquittal at first instance. The acquittal did not depend on the absence of anyone, but only on the lack of any evidence that there had been calunnia. That is, the actions and sparse records of the interrogators, as they testified, were irregular and judged to be apparent violations of the Italian Constitution and Italian law. There was no indication that Knox's allegations were not true, or that the methods of the interrogation would not lead her to interpret the interrogator's actions as a violation of her rights under Italian law.
 
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Numbers said:
Bill Williams, is this fully accurate?

IIUC, after Knox made her statements describing the interrogation of 5/6 November in testimony before the Massei court, Mignini asked Judge Massei to have a transcript of the testimony sent to his office, and he began a prosecution of Knox for calunnia against the police.

Initially, many of the police officers involved in the interrogation had joined the prosecution as civil parties, but a number of them -not all - dropped their civil action as the calunnia against the police case proceeded. When the case was forwarded from Perugia to Florence to avoid a conflict of interest, Mignini's name was added as one of those allegedly maliciously accused [subjected to calunnia] by Knox, for both criminal and civil cases.

The trial resulted in a final acquittal at first instance. The acquittal did not depend on the absence of anyone, but only on the lack of any evidence that there had been calunnia. That is, the actions and sparse records of the interrogators, as they testified, were irregular and judged to be apparent violations of the Italian Constitution and Italian law. There was no indication that Knox's allegations were not true, or that the methods of the interrogation would not lead her to interpret the interrogator's actions as a violation of her rights under Italian law.
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What I remember at the time, is that the first sitting of the trial in Florence had to be adjourned/postponed because none of the 'complainants' showed up.

But I also believe that your rendering is more accurate. The point being initially, was Vixen's claim that Knox had not used the "right form" in making her own complaint. Turns out, there is no 'right form' there is only a PM who is obliged to investigate crimes which he/she hears about.

My own point was that Vixen changes lanes in her arguments - I was hoping she would pick one, and stick with that - instead of just throwing random stuff against the wall to see if it will inflame others.
 
Today is the 15th anniversary of Meredith's death at the hands of Rudy Guede. She is not forgotten nor are her sister and brothers for whom today is very difficult.
 
Stacyhs said:
Today is the 15th anniversary of Meredith's death at the hands of Rudy Guede. She is not forgotten nor are her sister and brothers for whom today is very difficult.
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Absolutely. I also sometimes wonder whether the botched, unlawful, bogus prosecution circus involving Knox and Sollecito might have had any sort of contributory factor towards the deaths of Kercher's mother and father. If any or all of the Perugia state police, the Perugia PM and the Perugia lower court had done their jobs properly from the outset, it would have been easy to determine that the evidence (and lack of evidence) showed conclusively that Guede - and Guede alone -committed this horrific sexual assault and murder.

Had Kercher's parents (and other family and friends) been fed, from the outset, the correct narrative - that Guede alone was the perpetrator, and that there was not one speck of credible, reliable evidence of the involvement of anyone else (including, of course, Knox and Sollecito) - I can't help thinking that they would have reached closure much more quickly, much less painfully, and much more healthily. As it was, due to the mendacity of police and PM and the incompetence of the lower courts, both parents died still in confusion over who killed their daughter and whether those responsible had been brought to justice or evaded justice. And for me, that's such a sad - and, frankly, anger-inducing - fact, when the truth should have been so much easier for them to have to bear.

Of course, it's pure speculation as to whether the bungled & unlawful investigation and prosecution of Knox and Sollecito played any factor in the deaths of Kercher's parents. And after all, the very murder itself (and its horrific nature) would have been a huge jolt to them, irrespective of any consequent investigations/prosecutions/convictions/acquittals. But I certainly can't believe that the invidious way in which Mignini misled the Kercher family - and the cognitive dissonance that probably arose when the Italian Supreme Court and the ECHR both drove a coach and horses through Mignini's entire case re Knox and Sollecito - could have had anything but a detrimental impact upon Meredith's family and friends.
 
I agree, LondonJohn. If the police had done their job competently and honestly, this case would have been over when Guede's verdict was confirmed in 2010 instead of going on until 2015. They would not have had to go through the stress of any trials.
 
Don Paulo

I don't have a link, and also am reluctant to barter in what amounts to private stuff, but here it goes.

Andrea Vogt is reporting that Knox and Mignini have recently had a private meeting, where they agreed on many things - save perhaps for Mignini insisting that Knox had been at the cottage that fateful night.

Of course, both Knox and the evidence insists otherwise....

But, this meeting was brokered by the prison chaplain who had always been kindly to Knox.

Then again, given that this meeting was private, it seems strange that it was Andrea Vogt writing about it. Her stock in trade back in 2007-2010 was to take courtroom, prosecution theories and ferry them to Seattle-based, anti-Knox hate sites. At times, Vogt seemed to have been Mignini's virtual press agent.

In any event, perhaps congratulations should be afforded to both the principals in this, Mignini probably fearing that his name and career will forever be tainted by the most notorious miscarriages of justice in Italy's recent memory.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Link to Andrea Vogt's story.
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Hmmmm....Mignini still can't admit he was wrong. I don't get his 'friendship' with her if he still thinks Meredith didn't get justice and Amanda was only acquitted due to political pressure. It sure sounds like he still thinks she and Raff were involved in the murder itself and not just "there that night". Piece of ****.
 
Stacyhs said:
Hmmmm....Mignini still can't admit he was wrong. I don't get his 'friendship' with her if he still thinks Meredith didn't get justice and Amanda was only acquitted due to political pressure. It sure sounds like he still thinks she and Raff were involved in the murder itself and not just "there that night". Piece of ****.
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Maybe the problem with the piece was Andrea Vogt, its author. There was a time when Vogt could not admit that Mignini had done any wrong.
 
Stacyhs said:
Hmmmm....Mignini still can't admit he was wrong. I don't get his 'friendship' with her if he still thinks Meredith didn't get justice and Amanda was only acquitted due to political pressure. It sure sounds like he still thinks she and Raff were involved in the murder itself and not just "there that night". Piece of ****.
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Bill Williams said:
Maybe the problem with the piece was Andrea Vogt, its author. There was a time when Vogt could not admit that Mignini had done any wrong.
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Has Mignini himself published any statement admitting he was wrong in prosecuting Knox and Sollecito?

Some may find my views too judgmental, but without a statement from Mignini admitting his errors and misdeeds - unlawful actions - I suggest that he has not adequately begun to redress them.

There is also the question of whether he and other Italian authorities who have committed errors of gross negligence and intentional unlawful acts have liability, should Italy award compensation to Knox and/or Sollecito, in accordance with CPP Article 647.
 
TomG said:
More stuff about Amanda and Anne Bremner's new book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgkyUrTTR6o

Hoots
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Very interesting. Bremner is so right: people make up their minds within a very short time of hearing about something and most simply cannot change that first belief. They filter out...handwave away... anything that doesn't confirm that bias. Some people's egos are so fragile that they'd rather continue to be wrong than to admit they are wrong. We see it all the time, including here on what is supposedly a "skeptics' " forum. Quote a motivation report's ruling and you'll be told it was a 'clerical error' or quote that the defendant was acquitted of a specific charge and you'll be told it was never adjudicated. So many people tend to dig in deeper rather than climb out of a hole and it's sent innocent people to jail or worse.
 
Numbers said:
Has Mignini himself published any statement admitting he was wrong in prosecuting Knox and Sollecito?
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No, and if his quotes in the Vogt article are accurate, he still thinks they are guilty. Mignini is a good example of someone incapable of admitting being wrong. We saw it in the Narducci case when he resorted to the ridiculous 'double body switch' claim and in the prosecution, and eventual acquittal, of 20 people in the case.

Some may find my views too judgmental, but without a statement from Mignini admitting his errors and misdeeds - unlawful actions - I suggest that he has not adequately begun to redress them.
There is also the question of whether he and other Italian authorities who have committed errors of gross negligence and intentional unlawful acts have liability, should Italy award compensation to Knox and/or Sollecito, in accordance with CPP Article 647.
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I agree. Sadly, I don't think his ego will ever allow him to admit he was wrong. His bragging about people coming up to him in the street and congratulating him on the first Knox/Sollecito conviction is very telling.
 
Methos said:
Just for the record:
L'ultima notte di Meredith: Andrea Purgatori intervista Rudy Guede
Stacyhs said:
No English subtitles.
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Heck, where are the guilters, when you need them? ;)

The interview is part of a 3.5 hours programme that aired on LA7 on Tuesday. If someone wants know how to get around the geoblocking on that site, send me a PM)

I've watched about a third of it now. The interview parts are followed by a live discussion of the moderator Andrea Purgatori with journalist Erika Pontini, who seems to be sceptical when it comes to Guede's strory. They are joined by Guiliano Mignini via video screen after about an hour. I stopped at this point, but I'm curious, this could be interesting. ;)
 
Stacyhs said:
It's not "Amanda's" new book. It was written by Anne and her brother, Doug. The editorial reviews are excellent.

https://www.amazon.com/Amanda-Knox-Justice-Age-Judgment/dp/151075136X

I wonder how long until Slick Pete and his ilk will be knee jerk slamming it...without having read it.
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Slick Pete and his ilk - by now - haven't even noticed, that Guede's book is out and haven't even commented on anything case related for quite some time now. If things like Guede's book and all the stuff published around the 15th anniversary of the murder of Meredith Kercher by Rudy Gude isn't on their radar, I guess it must be very lonely there at TJMK (or what's left of it ;) )
 
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