The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 31

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As a general thought about the statements of some guilters, here's an interesting quote from a different controversy:

No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact. Source:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/23/sidney-powell-trump-election-fraud-claims

Quoting a statement in the defense brief of a US lawyer accused in a civil lawsuit of defamation. The allegedly defamatory statements were accusations by a US lawyer relating to a company's vote-counting machines.
 
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Big holes in that. For a start, it would have been totally out of character for Mez to smash her own windows, when she had homework to do (not realising next day was a Bank Holiday [day of the dead, or All Souls]).

If he was a rapist, strange that the rape was never consummated.

Ha ha! The point is that I know a work of fiction when I see it. You created fictional theory of the crime above, I did the same to show how easy it is. Your theory was fantasy, so was mine. You make the same mistake with my theory as you do with your own. i.e. taking it seriously. In fact your post above to Bill has more "big holes" in it than a Swiss cheese, as has been pointed out.

Hoots
 
She probably assumed he was South African because he supported South Africa against England in the Rugby World Cup final earlier. As a basketball player, Guede possibly looked short in comparison with his ream mates. If she wanted to implicate him, why not just name him?

Yeah probably. I'm probably the king of england. As long as we define probably to mean whatever we want.

As Marasca-Bruno observed, Knox covered up for Guede, just as Guede covered up for Knox in his phone call to his friend Benedetti. Partners in crime cover up for each other. Just as Sollecito covered uo for Knox (but then threw her under the bus at the second interrogation, saying she had made him lie for her).

Lol. Name a case where a suspect placed themselves at the scene of the crime for the explicit purpose of claiming their alleged accomplice wasn't at the scene of the crime, to cover for them. We'll wait :rolleyes:
 
Guede is hardly likely to come out and admit his guilt

Because? Why didn't he testify during the Hellmann appeal directly about the events of the murder? When his own sentence had been finalized? Why would he not want the other 2 to also be held responsible & their sentences upheld? Just give us your opinion....we'll wait.

Knox was on her way to work when she got a message from Patrik not to come in as business was quiet.

Nope. She wasn't "on her way" anywhere. She was at Sollecito's place.

She bumped into Guede in Plaza Grimana and invited him abck to the cottage, or he invited himself. Whatever the sequence, at some poitn, Guede, Knox and Kercher were together in the cottage and probably Sollecito came by, too.
"Probably Sollecito came by too"? Hard to believe anyone could put forth something this nonsensical.

stoned out of the heads on drugs

Precisely what drugs would that be? I don't recall evidence of this kind being admitted during any of AK/RS trials.

However, it is a fact they knew each other, had exchanged pleasantries in the night club and had shared a joint at the cottage.

None of this prattle, even if true, remotely proves Knox/Guede "knew" each other except in passing. Meeting someone once or twice, saying hello, having a conversation...none of that suggests 2 people know each other in any meaningful way, other than again, in passing.

What is a much more relevant fact is that there is no evidence whatsoever that Guede & Sollecito, to this day, have ever known, or met, each other. In passing, or otherwise. Nobody claims they knew each other. Not Sollectito. Not Guede. Not either's friends, relatives, neighbors, coworkers. No one. Which makes their participation together in a murder of a young woman neither even knew particularly well a ridiculous proposition. Especially since there was no common - and fluent - language between Knox and Sollecito and Guede.
 
How lucky is Knox you guys.

She has Rudy, who she refers to as "the short south african boy" who "raped and killed Meredith" to fall on his sword and die for her.

She has the Secretary of State and President of the United States and US Senator from Washington to bully an entire nation for her.

Her boyfriend she randomly met for 5 minutes at a concert happened to have mafioso lawyer ties to rig the judges.

This is Knox as viewed by Vixen.

Vixen's posts should really be about how Knox is the luckiest, craftiest, most inexplicable and exceptionally fortunate killer of all time, but for her it's....Saturday. One of the judges Hillary Clinton threatened to have whacked said Knox covered for Guede. Let's discuss that. No not the Hillary Clinton part, that's so boring, I meant the pedestrian evidence in a typical murder case. That.
 
You know nothing of Kercher's character. Smashing one's own windows is kind of outside the norm, though. So there's that.


She missed the real tell. Meredith was English. She would never have said a weird word like "burglarised". She would have said "burgled", which is the normal and sensible word for what happened.
 
She said in her book that her aim in going to Italy was to bed as many men as possible. It is also assumed she went because there was a drug scene there.
The entire case against Knox and Sollecito is based on assumptions, not evidence.
 
Knox said she went to Italy to learn Italian.

She left Italy speaking fluent Italian.

I assume she went for drugs, which you can't get in Seattle, probably - Vixen.
 
Instead of going with the spin, I did my own research into the case and I am afraid it doesn't look good for either Knox, Sollecito or Guede.
Ultimately, the Italian court system came to a different conclusion, didn't they?
 
Giacomo was away on a skiing holiday and could prove his alibi. Laura was in Rome and Filomena was actually interrogated just as much as Knox. Her alibi was also sound.

False. Filomena was not 'interrogated' as much or in the same way as Knox as she was quickly dismissed as a suspect. Her interviews (not interrogations), past the initial deposition she gave on Nov. 2 at the questura and going to the cottage along with Laura and Amanda on Nov. 3, were all directed at providing evidence against Knox. They certainly were not interrogations to get her to "buckle" in order to get her to finally admit to what the police claimed they "already knew to be true".
 
Off topic but I assume being locked up in a foreign prison is the ultimate language immersion program. Next time I'm in France I need to start doing cartwheels and hope for the best.
 
No, I don't believe it. Criminals claiming 'not guilty' have to concoct lies for their defence. Guede is hardly likely to come out and admit his guilt, any more than Knox or Sollecito will. Why don't I believe him? Because if he really was a friend of Kercher he should be able to prove it. Mez had just come home after an evening with her English compatriots. How likely is she going to pick up some guy on the way home, even if she knows him from the local pub? In addition, if it was true he and Mez were making out when Knox arrived home and picked a fight, he would surely take the side of Kercher and not Knox.

IMV Massei, Micheli and Nencini were on the right track, albeit with some variation in their construction of events, which is to be expected given nobody was actually present to witness what happened. Knox was on her way to work when she got a message from Patrik not to come in as business was quiet. She bumped into Guede in Plaza Grimana and invited him abck to the cottage, or he invited himself. Whatever the sequence, at some poitn, Guede, Knox and Kercher were together in the cottage and probably Sollecito came by, too. A row broke out between Knox and Kercher. The fact Guede took Knox' side and held Mez' hands behind her back (his DNA is on the cuffs of her jumper) whilst Knox and Sollecito tormented her with knives proves he was no friend of Mez'.

Motive, I believe a young adult thrill killling. Sollecito because he was into 'extreme experiences' and knives and Knox because she was upset by Mez excluding her from her circle of friends and possibly accusing her of the theft of her rent money. Sollecito had in his apartment an anime comic whci recreated a Halloween scene of an ancient female vampire, which showed the vampire being slayed, naked, with three pairs of feet standing around her. Knox had spent Halloween alone, tramping the streets looking for friends whilst Mez was out having fun with her group of friends. I believe this triggered Knox who had been subjected to exclusion at school and by her own account subsequently had to hang out with the freaks and 'rejects'. This was a case of history repeating itself, with Sollecito himself a loner, incel-type with personality disorder problems, which were the despair off his father, who packed him off to a boarding school for the orphans of doctors. Sollecito bitterly resented this as he blamed his fahter's affair for the suicide of his mother, hence his retreat into drug experimentation and anti-social attitude (love of Marilyn Manson for example). So the three of them stoned out of the heads on drugs (see Kokomani's testimony) play acted Mez as a vampire to be slain (as she still had blood makeup on her chin earlier that afternoon). English girls can be quite haughty so I am sure this stuck in Knox' craw.

So, as is apparent, Guede, like the woman in the Manson gang, was equally guilty by holding the victims arms behind her back, and indeed had his trousers drenched in her blood.

The fact Knox and Sollecito did come back later to clean up the mess and try to stage a burglary, all fits in with the chronology the prosecution lawyers came up with. I don't believe it was an argument about cleanliness. That wouldn't lead to torture and sadism. So i disagree with Nencini there. However, as motive is not required to prove an aggravated murder, Nencini probably went for the lesser motive. Massei's belief in a sex game 'gone wrong' was likely nearer the mark.


What Americans find impossible to believe is that Knox would be friends with an African. However, it is a fact they knew each other, had exchanged pleasantries in the night club and had shared a joint at the cottage.

Where to even begin? Maybe here:

Knox was on her way to work when she got a message from Patrik not to come in as business was quiet.

Patrick's text was sent at 20:18:12 (Lumumba phone log) and she replied at 20:35:48 (Lumumba and Knox phone logs) Knox didn't work until 9:00 (23:00). Knox was also seen at RS's apt. by Jovana Popovic at 8:40 after she had texted Lumumba acknowledging his text. This disproves that "She bumped into Guede in Plaza Grimana and invited him abck to the cottage, or he invited himself." You might want to familiarize yourself with the records.

at some poitn, Guede, Knox and Kercher were together in the cottage and probably Sollecito came by, too.

Why? According to your scenario, Knox never went back to his place after leaving to go to work and bumped into Guede then going to her place. RS would have thought she was at work so why would he go to her place? Phone records show no calls/texts between her and RS that night, so how would he know to go to her place? Also, why does CCTV footage from the parking garage show only Kercher arriving home? Unless you think they climbed over a fence that was rather high off the ground from street level to the cottage yard level instead of walking down the driveway?

A row broke out between Knox and Kercher. The fact Guede took Knox' Knox's side and held Mez' Meredith's hands behind her back (his DNA is on the cuffs of her jumper) whilst Knox and Sollecito tormented her with knives proves he was no friend of Mez' Meredith's.

"The fact"? A 'fact' is not based on someone's imagination but on provable evidence. Which your scenario lacks in abundance.

His DNA was found on one cuff. If he'd been holding her by the wrists firmly enough to subdue her while she was being 'tormented', it would have been found on both cuffs.

Motive, I believe a young adult thrill killling. Sollecito because he was into 'extreme experiences' and knives and Knox because she was upset by Mez excluding her from her circle of friends and possibly accusing her of the theft of her rent money.

A 'thrill kill" by two people with zero history of abnormal or violent behavior. Unless you'd like to bring up a "scissors attack" again? An attack that was totally unsubstantiated and in which the anonymous source never said Sollecito was involved in, but only that a such an attack had occurred at the school. You might want to familiarize yourself with Volturno's testimony.

No one ever testified Knox was upset with Kercher for anything. No one. In fact, sworn testimony from the Italian roommates and the boys downstairs stated that they never saw any problems between the girls or that one had ever spoken badly about or complained about the other to them. It was Knox's choice not to hang out with other English speakers because she wanted Italian friends to better learn the language.[/I] That's why she made Italian friends and insisted speaking in Italian, which, according to Follain, irritated Kercher's British girlfriends.
Why would Knox need to steal Kercher's rent money when she had over $4000 in her bank account and a job? You conveniently forget that it was Guede, not Knox, who was in desperate need of money.

You might want to familiarize yourself with the testimonies and bank records.

Sollecito had in his apartment an anime comic whci recreated a Halloween scene of an ancient female vampire, which showed the vampire being slayed, naked, with three pairs of feet standing around her.

Yes, which he had received as a gift and was still in its unopened, original covering. Unless he was influenced by it through psychic abilities, it's just a red herring. You might want to familiarize yourself with the records.

Knox had spent Halloween alone, tramping the streets looking for friends whilst Mez was out having fun with her group of friends. I believe this triggered Knox who had been subjected to exclusion at school and by her own account subsequently had to hang out with the freaks and 'rejects'.

What you believe is irrelevant since you interpret everything from an extreme guilt-biased perspective. Knox had many friends in college...all of whom refused to speak badly about her to the journalists and paparazzi inundating them with requests for interviews. She sent her email of Nov. 4 to 25 friends back home. Hardly someone who had trouble making friends.

and by her own account subsequently had to hang out with the freaks and 'rejects'.

"Freaks and 'rejects'" is your description, not Knox's:
I was the quirky kid who hung out with the sulky manga-readers, the ostracized gay kids, and the theater geeks. I took Japanese and sang, loudly, in the halls while walking from one class to another. Since I didn’t really fit in, I acted like myself, which pretty much made sure I never did.
But to my lasting embarrassment, in my junior year, I traded my friends for a less eccentric crowd.
I made friends with a more mainstream group of girls and guys, attracted to them by their cohesiveness. They traveled in packs in the halls, ate lunch together, hung out after school, and seemed to have known each other forever. But in pulling away from my original friends, who liked me despite my being different, or maybe because I was, I hurt them. And while my new friends were fun-loving, I was motivated to be with them by insecurity. I’m ashamed for not having had the guts to be myself no matter what anyone thought.
(Waiting to Be Heard, pgs. 11,12)

Your description of 'gay kids' and 'theater geeks' as 'freaks and rejects' is interesting to say the least.

Sollecito himself a loner, incel-type with personality disorder problems, which were the despair off his father, who packed him off to a boarding school for the orphans of doctors.

Lots of shy people are loners but RS did have friends which you imply he didn't. RS said he was very shy. 'Incel-type'? Let me get this straight. Amanda was promiscuous and slut shamed for having sex and Raffaele is an 'incel type' because he didn't have a lot of sex? Wow. Where are his complaints blaming women for that? Or anything derogatory about women at all? That's what incels do. You might want to familiarize yourself with 'incel-types'.

which were the despair off his father, who packed him off to a boarding school for the orphans of doctors.

Um...no. Just no:

When I finished high school, I needed to get away, so I applied for university in Perugia, where I had the opportunity to live cheaply at a residential college set up specially for the children of doctors. My father, who understood why I wanted to leave, thought it would be a smoother transition than launching out on my own.
My mind, though, was made up: when Perugia accepted me, it was time to cut my old ties and try life in a different part of Italy.
I didn’t regret the choice for an instant.
(Honor Bound)

You've made this same claim before about his father packing him off because of his drug usage and claimed he said so in his book. I challenged it then and asked for quotes/citation...which you, unsurprisingly, failed to ever provide. You might want to familiarize yourself with his book before making claims about what's in it.
 
....

What Americans find impossible to believe is that Knox would be friends with an African. However, it is a fact they knew each other, had exchanged pleasantries in the night club and had shared a joint at the cottage.

Vixen, please explain your statement. What evidence supports your statement "What Americans find impossible to believe is that Knox would be friends with an African."?
 
Vixen, please explain your statement. What evidence supports your statement "What Americans find impossible to believe is that Knox would be friends with an African."?

What marks those words as racist, is that perhaps fully 10% of Americans ARE of African descent. Guilters have been the ones who try to play the racist-card, this is them playing if from the bottom of the deck.
 
Knox was also seen at RS's apt. by Jovana Popovic at 8:40

IIRC Vixen considers Popovic a bent/false witness paid off by the Raff clan or something.

It's hard to make a working timeline and coherent guilter narrative. Really hard.

Rudy broke in a little before Meredith got home then stabbed and sexually assaulted her after a confrontation before fleeing alone into the night is pretty easy, and fits all the evidence, and Rudy's own statements, but like, you know, probably it was a trio of people that just met and could barely speak a mutual language with each other committing a group murder for inexplicable reasons on 20 minutes notice.
 
So the three of them stoned out of the heads on drugs (see Kokomani's testimony) play acted Mez as a vampire to be slain (as she still had blood makeup on her chin earlier that afternoon).

Kokomani? Insert laughing dog emoji here.

Did they base this play acting on the comic that was still in its original, unopened plastic container?

The fact Knox and Sollecito did come back later to clean up the mess and try to stage a burglary, all fits in with the chronology the prosecution lawyers came up with.

'The fact'? Again, Vix, facts are based on provable evidence not your imagination. What is a fact is that no evidence of any clean up was ever provided in court despite the prosecution's pitiful witness, Quintavalle, who was rightly dismissed as credible by Marasca-Bruno:
Quintavalle - apart from the lateness of his statements, initially reticent and generic - offered no contribution to certainty, not even regarding the product bought by the young woman he noted on the morning after the murder, when his shop opened, the fact he recognised Knox is worthless as her image had appeared in every newspaper and television news broadcast.

Giuseppe Privitera, the print expert, also said he saw no evidence of any attempted clean up.

What Americans find impossible to believe is that Knox would be friends with an African.

So now you're accusing all Americans of being racists? And here I thought it was just me...and Corrigan and Nina Burleigh. :rolleyes:


However, it is a fact they knew each other, had exchanged pleasantries in the night club and had shared a joint at the cottage.

You almost had a 'fact' there right...except they didn't "exchange pleasantries in the night club". AFTER Knox, Kercher, and the boys had LEFT the night club, they ran into Guede in the Nov 4 Piazza where they did "exchange pleasantries". Knox had, in fact, served him a drink and had a brief exchange with him at Le Chic in her job as a waitress.
Both of which would be enough for her to 'invite' him back to her cottage to force Kercher into a sex instead of going home where her boyfriend of a week would be more than willing to ...ahem...play along.

Sigh.
 
IIRC Vixen considers Popovic a bent/false witness paid off by the Raff clan or something.

It's hard to make a working timeline and coherent guilter narrative. Really hard.

Rudy broke in a little before Meredith got home then stabbed and sexually assaulted her after a confrontation before fleeing alone into the night is pretty easy, and fits all the evidence, and Rudy's own statements, but like, you know, probably it was a trio of people that just met and could barely speak a mutual language with each other committing a group murder for inexplicable reasons on 20 minutes notice.

It's amazing how many judges, forensic experts, acquaintances, et al were all 'bent' just in order to acquit some 20 year old student from Seattle. :jaw-dropp
 
What marks those words as racist, is that perhaps fully 10% of Americans ARE of African descent. Guilters have been the ones who try to play the racist-card, this is them playing if from the bottom of the deck.

We voted for a Black president twice but we just can't imagine Amanda being friends with an African!

 
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