Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
How do we know a pandemic's over?
- Thread starter Chanakya
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d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
I'm getting my newstyle booster on Friday, and after that I think I'll return to using just a cloth mask in public rather than the N95. But that's as far as I'm willing to go just yet. I tend to caution, and also I look really sexy in a mask. And it means I don't have to shave so frequently!
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
Do cloth masks do anything at all? There's an in-between option which is disposable surgical masks.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7510705/#R4
The only published randomized controlled trial compared the use of cloth masks against "medical masks" in healthcare workers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
I'm not anti-mask, I'm wearing one right now (a disposable surgical-type mask). I just think that most cloth masks probably have no practical value as far as preventing infection. They may be fashionable however.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7510705/#R4
The only published randomized controlled trial compared the use of cloth masks against "medical masks" in healthcare workers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/
I'm not anti-mask, I'm wearing one right now (a disposable surgical-type mask). I just think that most cloth masks probably have no practical value as far as preventing infection. They may be fashionable however.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I wore face-fitted FFP3 masks for two and a half years and didn't catch anything. One afternoon's lack of rigour on holiday, and I caught it.
My friend was wearing FFP2s, and said to me at one point, I know your masks are better, but you're getting the mask tangled up with your glasses and it takes time to get it on and off. Wouldn't you be better with the easier FFP2s for less hazardous situations? She was getting hers on and off very quickly and it seemed very comfortable. I said I saw her point, I was just using what I had, and what I was used to.
Well, we both got the virus at the same time, no difference between the mask protection as it happened. But mine had an exhalation valve, making it useless to protect other people from me. Because of that I bought a box of FFP2s without exhalation valves in the village chemist. Much cheaper than the FFP3s I wear, much more convenient and more comfortable.
I'm using the FFP2s now if I just have to pop into a shop for a few minutes, things like that. I'll still use the FFP3s for indoor events with a lot of people, and major shopping expeditions. But really, the FFP2s are probably adequate for ordinary social use. My friend's FFP2 protected her just as well as my FFP3 protected me, until both of them didn't.
I was surprised by how cheap the FFP2s were - £4.99 for a box of fifteen, compared to about £6 for a single FFP3. That's only 33p per mask for the FFP2s, and you can reuse them often if you rest each mask for a few days between use.
Honestly, I don't know why anyone messes around with cloth masks, or even those useless surgical masks. FFP2s seem to do the job, they fit well, they're comfortable, they're easy to take off and on and they're cheap. (I think you call them N95s in America?)
My friend was wearing FFP2s, and said to me at one point, I know your masks are better, but you're getting the mask tangled up with your glasses and it takes time to get it on and off. Wouldn't you be better with the easier FFP2s for less hazardous situations? She was getting hers on and off very quickly and it seemed very comfortable. I said I saw her point, I was just using what I had, and what I was used to.
Well, we both got the virus at the same time, no difference between the mask protection as it happened. But mine had an exhalation valve, making it useless to protect other people from me. Because of that I bought a box of FFP2s without exhalation valves in the village chemist. Much cheaper than the FFP3s I wear, much more convenient and more comfortable.
I'm using the FFP2s now if I just have to pop into a shop for a few minutes, things like that. I'll still use the FFP3s for indoor events with a lot of people, and major shopping expeditions. But really, the FFP2s are probably adequate for ordinary social use. My friend's FFP2 protected her just as well as my FFP3 protected me, until both of them didn't.
I was surprised by how cheap the FFP2s were - £4.99 for a box of fifteen, compared to about £6 for a single FFP3. That's only 33p per mask for the FFP2s, and you can reuse them often if you rest each mask for a few days between use.
Honestly, I don't know why anyone messes around with cloth masks, or even those useless surgical masks. FFP2s seem to do the job, they fit well, they're comfortable, they're easy to take off and on and they're cheap. (I think you call them N95s in America?)
SteveAitch
Master Poster
And they are disposable - especially if you sneeze while wearing one. A word of advice - try not to. Yuck.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I dread to think what happens when you sneeze!
That's another point though. It takes real skill to wear them wrongly. You pretty much can't pull them down so your nose - the bit you normally breathe through! - isn't covered.
That's another point though. It takes real skill to wear them wrongly. You pretty much can't pull them down so your nose - the bit you normally breathe through! - isn't covered.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
A cloth mask isn't as good as an N95 mask, but it's better than no mask at all. I thought it was clear from context in my post above that I was considering a gradual reduction in safety measures as the pandemic winds down, rather than a sudden complete abandonment.
Rolfe
Adult human female
My point is that if you're going to put on a mask at all, why downgrade from an FFP2 at all? I can't think of one single advantage to anyone of wearing a cloth mask or a surgical mask.
Chanakya
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Haha, I didn't know you could get bespoke masks! Designer ones, yes; but not tailored ones. Cool.
I myself continue to wear masks. N95s. Have a large supply of them, that should last me over the next three or four months. After that, the way things gradually seem to be winding down, I'm hoping --- knock on wood! --- I won't have to restock again, or wear these damn things again.
At this point, though, while no doubt things are indeed winding down, but it still seems stupid to unnecessarily subject oneself to risk by not masking up. But yeah, I guess we're at the stage now where the YMMV thing might apply, so that should somone elect to go without, I won't necessarily judge.
Oh really? That's too bad. Hope it didn't hit you too hard, and you're OK again?
Of course, that's kind of where we're at now I guess. The risk of actually catching it hasn't gone away, really. (I mean after adjusting for vaccines and all, I mean over the last three or four months.) What has gone down is the risk of getting it bad.
eta: How on earth do they fit you for your tailored masks, though? I'm sure you don't actually go to a mask-tailor and have him or her run their measuring tape over your face! What, then?
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TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
I believe something is better than nothing, when it comes to risk mitigation.
Rolfe
Adult human female
That's true, but it's totally missing the point. Why use something that's giving you less protection when there is literally no downside to the thing that gives you more protection.
Chanakya
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*clears throat* ...An analogy comes to mind, which argues for your side of the argument, Rolfe. But I'll leave it unsaid, merely hinted at.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
It is you who are missing the point here. This is in context of winding down protective measures as the pandemic ends. If I thought it necessary to continue protective measures then I wouldn't make any changes at all.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
Do you remove your seat belt when you exit the vehicle, or do you leave it on?
Rolfe
Adult human female
A face-fit test is something that's done once, to check that the mask is actually suitable for the wearer, and to train them how to wear it so that it doesn't leak round the sides. I had to do it at work, probably some time around 2008, because I was working with carcasses that might have been carrying bird flu. I didn't wear the masks at work very often. I never thought they'd be such a big part of my retirement!
When all this hit I was already retired but I had a couple of masks in the house I took home when an H1N1 epidemic was threatened in 2010, but it didn't come to anything. They'd been kicking around for ten years and were out of date, but they hadn't been used. I didn't even know what FFP3 meant then (that was the designation on the mask), I kept reading about this N95 thing, but I finally realised N95 was the US equivalent of FFP2 and FFP3 was better.
I made these masks last for nine months until I was able to buy some more of the same brand online. Now I have two in use at one time and alternate them, unless I'm going out frequently. When I was on holiday I had a fresh one for every day. But it seems that some people who didn't mask in a concert our group went to, caught the virus there and brought it back to the rest of us.
Even if you haven't had a formal face-fit test (which involved a probe to see whether a test vapour is getting inside the mask), having someone who knows how to wear the mask show you what to do can be nearly as good, assuming the mask is OK for your face. But I've found that people don't listen and won't do what they're told, and the thing is obviously leaking. But even then, it's going to be better than a cloth or surgical mask.
I think for people who haven't been trained in the face fitting and don't have a background in serious PPE wearing, the FFP2s are pretty good, easy to use and give decent protection. My friend who was wearing an FFP2 didn't get the virus at the concert either.
Chanakya
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If we're doing the same analogy as I'd picked on, I guess I leave it on, until after I'm out of the car?
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
If we're doing the same analogy as I'd picked on, I guess I leave it on, until after I'm out of the car?
No, I'm asking if after you're out of the car do you still have your seat belt on? What's being suggested here is that the protective measure should remain fully employed even after the point of using it has been removed.
Rolfe
Adult human female
If it's not necessary to continue protective measures, then don't do anything. Simple.
The last couple of weeks have been nice, because I reckoned I really wasn't going to get it again so soon, so I temporarily joined the no-mask contingent. Back to the masks this week though. Not getting this again!
No, I'm suggesting that if the point of protection has not gone away, why choose to use a less efficient protection? You take the seat belt off when you get out of the car. You don't then drape a belt or sash round your shoulders "just in case".
If the danger has ended, then end the masks. If there is still some danger, keep using the better-quality masks.
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TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
I disagree. I prefer a gradual winding down of protective measures, particularly in the case of a pandemic which doesn't have a clear on/off state.
I prefer my approach. I have been masking with N95s and refraining from unnecessary outings, and have not caught covid once yet.