Rolfe
Adult human female
In the lexicon of some people, though that is not universally accepted ...
There are people who think the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old, too.
Cont: Trans women are not women (IX)
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There are people who think the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old, too.
Rolfe
Adult human female
My dog Quinn is super girly, he's a total wuss.
Our other dog Mary is super butch, she's smaller than Q but she kicks his butt.
She definitely is the one wearing the trousers.
So what? Going by your own terminology, Quinn is a dog and Mary is a bitch. Irrespective of their behaviour.
If I see an animal with a penis and testicles I am going to put it down in the notes as male. I do not care if the owner tells me it is "super-girly", whatever that might mean in an animal, it's male.
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stanfr
Illuminator
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It makes the arguer look disingenuous. That was my point.
You forget that I was (and still am) largely on the fence when it comes to this argument, that's why I'm here! I don't feel any need to post or read in thread on
9/11 truth or aliens landing cause I am solidly on the skeptics side in those threads, so unless I have special expertise there's no real reason for me to participate. These policy issue are more interesting to me.
stanfr
Illuminator
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Relax im just joking. But seriously, you really need to do more vet work with ladybugs--they're super sexy!
Utterly wrong. One cannot change sex or develop into another sex.
Indeed - could apply as much to your "thesis" as to mine.Though it's less an issue of brute facts than of labeling, of deciding which traits qualify as necessary and sufficient conditions for category membership. There's no intrinsic meaning to "male" and "female".
But somewhat subjective, though not entirely so - some definitions and categorizations are more useful than others.
stanfr
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You said:
"Gender is a made-up nonsense"
That implies there is no biological (or for that matter, psychological, societal...)
basis for gender, doesn't it? I mean if it's nonsense, there's no sense to it.
Rolfe
Adult human female
A'abody's oot o step except oor Johnny.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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If gender has a biological basis, that throws a monkey wrench into the justification for self ID.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
It is *now*. You can see how sex-based roles in a community might have made sense in prehistoric times, when there wasn't a lot of technology, and physical labor was paramount. And you see some sexist hangovers from that context today, such as the practice of covering up the womenfolk to avoid triggering the gaze of the physically stronger males.
But in western society today? There's really no such thing as gender roles. The social constructs around gender are being actively dismantled. Sex-based gender discrimination is frowned upon, and often outright illegal. I'm referring here to things like assigning outdated gender stereotypes to people based on their sex. Cooking and cleaning is women's work. Only men can be soldiers. Ladies wear dresses and dudes wear pants. Stuff like that. Stuff that is rightly deprecated.
We don't segregate by sex in the boardroom. There is no "board chairman" gender role in our society. We don't segregate by sex in politics. There is no "congressman" gender role in our society. The only places we still segregate by sex are in places where the statistical physical disparity between the sexes is still a major factor in securing health, safety, fairness, and other positive outcomes for each of the sexes.
Search your heart. You know it to be true. You yourself cannot describe a clear gender identity of "woman" in our society. Go ahead, try it. Let's see if you can come up with a description of "woman" that isn't either a sexist stereotype, or has as many exceptions as exemplars, or both.
Any time we get any clarity at all about what a man means when they say they're actually a woman, it turns out that what they mean is they're actually female. Transgenderism is practically meaningless. Transsexualism is the name of the game that's actually being played.
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Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
What the hell? How do you figure this?LoL. Seems "he" has some credible company in the way biologists Parker (FRS) and Lehtonen, not to mention any number of dictionaries and journals, all keeping time with him. Or rather that he's keeping time with. Hardly a "thesis" I've cut from whole cloth ...
You, perchance, have anything in the way of similarly credible sources to back up your position?
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
1) They will NOT have female anatomy.
2) If I can't tell, why would I ask?
3) The overwhelming majority don't even come remotely close to passing, so your hypothetical is based on a utopian assumption that flies in the face of observable reality.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Take it to the other thread, Steersman.
Don't make assertions as if they were gospel truth ...
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
You genuinely do not seem to be on the fence. Your interactions suggest that you're rather strongly more one side than the other. If you truly are on the fence, then I polite recommend actually looking into some of what is actually happening in the world... rather than just asserting that you don't believe it, it's not possible, etc simply because it's not how you imagine it to be.
Prisons in California are 100% placing completely unaltered male prisoners in with female prisoners against their will, without their consent, without even bothering to consult them... and they're doing so on nothing more than the say-so of those males who have found their "true" gender identity while incarcerated. There is no requirement for a diagnosis, or even any psychiatric evaluation. There is no requirement for hormonal or surgical treatment.
Hell, even one of the genuinely transgender inmates expressed concern that a lot of the males asking to be transferred were doing so for nefarious reasons, seeking to gain access to a captive victim pool.
But you insist it's not real... why? Because you don't want to believe it? Because that's not how you imagine it should work?
Rolfe
Adult human female
I am asserting that in a career spanning over forty years I never found an animal I couldn't tell which sex it was. Easily and almost instantly.
I'm asserting that telling the exact age of the animal is impossible.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
There may be a psychological basis for someone believing they are Napoleon... that doesn't make it real, it's still made-up nonsense. The madman doesn't realize they are mad.
And at present there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that there is a biological basis for it. None at all.
Hard to imagine a more idiotic concept than self-identification. We might just as well pass laws stipulating that any child of 12 who "self-identifies as 35" should be allowed to buy guns and booze and cigarettes.
Though not quite sure how you think putting gender on a biological basis necessarily throws any monkey wrench into that "idea". Not that I'm disagreeing with you.
But a great deal of justification to argue that gender is a rough synonym for personalities and personality types - of which there are billions and billions. But also a great deal of evidence that personalities have at least some roots in biological factors, and that there are significant differences, on average, between "men" and "women". Fairly decent article here that elaborates on that theme:
https://4thwavenow.com/2019/08/19/n...r-thoughts-on-the-concept-of-gender-identity/
The graph therefrom is particularly illustrative:
Rolfe
Adult human female
Gender is one of three things. A "polite" synonym for sex. Which we don't really need in this thread. Or a grammatical term describing how nouns function within sentences. Or a description of something that really boils down to "personality".
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