Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Name and email address of this claimed authority, please.
The Supernatural Part II
- Thread starter heydarian saeed
- Start date
Name and email address of this claimed authority, please.
There is no such thing as "scientific facts" ... there are simply some things that most people in the world regard as "facts" ... that's not a scientific fact or a religious fact or an adults fact or a childrens fact or a Nigerian fact ... a "fact" is something that is true everywhere for everyone.
However, you need to understand this - science does not claim to find or establish "facts". And that's because science has discovered that no matter how certain and "factual" anything might appear to be, still there must always remain some uncertainty, however small, unless & until we can produce a literal 100% certain "proof" ... and what we have found from Quantum Theory is that a literal absolute "proof" is probably not possible for anything in this universe … we can determine things scientifically as being probably 99.999999999% likley, but we cannot ever determine them as 100% certain.
On your second point of claiming that modern science was revealed in the 7th century Quran - as everyone here has repeatedly told you - you have not actually found even one verse in the Quran that describes modern science ... and current-day top-level published science agrees with that, ie science finds no evidence of any modern science in the Quran ...
... what you have is simply a religiously driven belief that you can see science in the words of the Quran. But as I said to you before - unsurprisingly Muslims (like yourself) are just like Christian theists when they claim to see evidence of God and evidence of intelligent design in absolutely everything around us everywhere in this entire universe ... they see everything as confirming evidence of God ... though of course, the real truth is that none of things they see are actually designed at all, and science has been explaining that & confirming that lack of design for at least the last 150 years - there is no intelligent purposeful design for anything in this universe.
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One more thing about those of us who have accused you of lying and dishonesty here (in my case I am saying that your extreme beliefs in Islam are leading you into constantly lying in order to support that religious belief) -
- much earlier in this thread, on 3 separate occasions I made an offer to you saying I am willing to put aside all my doubts and criticisms of Islam or any such religion, and have an entirely neutral conversation with you about what we can establish, what the world & science has established about religion and holy books such as the bible or the Quran, if you are willing to do the same and put aside for the sake discussion & learning, your beliefs about God and the Quran ... so we have a entirely objective neutral discussion of what can really be ascertained about religion and the Quran ...
... but each time your response to that was to ignore it completely and refuse any reply. That is, by your omission, a refusal by you to have any such genuine open objective neutral discussion.
And that really is a demonstration as clear as can be, that you are only prepared here to preach your religious beliefs and to insist that you are an expert in your beliefs who cannot be wrong and who must never be questioned or doubted or opposed at all ... and that is absolutely NOT an honest way for you to engage in any interaction on this Forum at all. That is a thoroughly dishonest approach from you.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
And here’s your problem: science doesn’t deal in “truth”. It deals in hypotheses. A hypothesis that has so far resisted disproof, and is well-supported by the evidence, is described as a theory, but even theories can be disproved by further evidence. The current science that you claim is revealed by the Quran is almost certainly not completely correct. It just provides models of the way the universe behaves. The scientific theories that you claim have been divinely revealed will, at some point, be revealed to be defective.
If you had been writing 150 years ago, you would have been claiming that Newton’s theory of gravitation had been revealed in the Quran. If you had been writing 250 years ago you would have been claiming that the Quran had revealed the existence of phlogiston. Your “interpretations” of the Quran are not of an eternal truth, they are just a shoehorning of the Quran into a snapshot of current scientific knowledge.
This is why I have been asking you for testable predictions about future scientific discoveries. Because if you can only predict stuff we already know (even if you get it right, which you don’t) your “predictions” prove nothing.
Show us that the Quran reveals how current science is wrong.
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wollery
Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs!
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Your understanding of science has been shown by your own postings on the subject is nowhere near complete.
Your "understanding" of almost all of the science you have offered an opinion on could best be described as little to none.
Heydarian, can you use your scholarly and scientific expertise to address my question about hell?
You have stated that the temperature of hell is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 degrees Celsius. Any corporeal being or any corporeal part of a being would be instantly annihilated at such temperatures, leaving (at most) a cloud of formless energy expanding across space at the speed of light.
Let me emphasize that point. 10^22 °C is not a temperature that would cause painful burns to flesh and blood. It would be more like being inside the fireball of a nuclear bomb, except another ten trillion times hotter. The body would be reduced to subatomic energy quanta a million times faster than the nervous system could convey (let alone consciously experience) any pain.
On the other hand, any non-corporeal being, such as a soul or spirit, has no reason to care about what the temperature is at all. Temperature is a statistical description of the frequencies of photons and the movements of particles of matter. There's no reason to think a non-corporeal soul or spirit, not made of photons or any other particle of matter, would be affected by any temperature.
So why do you cite the temperature of hell as a reason to fear? Why should anyone care how hot or cold hell is?
You have stated that the temperature of hell is 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 degrees Celsius. Any corporeal being or any corporeal part of a being would be instantly annihilated at such temperatures, leaving (at most) a cloud of formless energy expanding across space at the speed of light.
Let me emphasize that point. 10^22 °C is not a temperature that would cause painful burns to flesh and blood. It would be more like being inside the fireball of a nuclear bomb, except another ten trillion times hotter. The body would be reduced to subatomic energy quanta a million times faster than the nervous system could convey (let alone consciously experience) any pain.
On the other hand, any non-corporeal being, such as a soul or spirit, has no reason to care about what the temperature is at all. Temperature is a statistical description of the frequencies of photons and the movements of particles of matter. There's no reason to think a non-corporeal soul or spirit, not made of photons or any other particle of matter, would be affected by any temperature.
So why do you cite the temperature of hell as a reason to fear? Why should anyone care how hot or cold hell is?
Mojo
Mostly harmless
And let me tell you, that would be something that any scientist working in the relevant field would find tremendously exciting.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
...which at that temperature would happen at the speed of light, far faster than any nerve impulses could be conducted, as I mentioned.
Tell me that hell is a constant 45°C which would somehow affect my afterlife self in the same way that same temperature would affect my present self, just barely survivable yet eternally miserably uncomfortable, and it's a comprehensible threat, at least if I believe it. But telling me that hell is ten billion trillion degrees just sounds like empty childish rhetoric. Unless Heydarian can answer my questions regarding why it would matter.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
So approximately between 97°F (36.1°C) and 99°F (37.2°C)?
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello
See the Koran hypothesis that was claimed in the previous 14 centuries. It has been proven by scientists in the 20th century with objective evidence and its details. Therefore, the hypothesis of the Qur'an and the supplication of God alone have been correct. And it is true. In the Qur'an, the details of the findings of each claim are left to humans. And it does not express the details and tests in itself. This management is self-confidence and creating motivation for people, which is completely accepted and superior in management science. God only refers to the realities of the universe that exist in the Qur'an. He leaves the details of discovery to humans. And this management is completely correct. And it is undeniable.
The philosophy of the Qur'an is the philosophy of the originality of existence. That is, it introduces and expresses what exists in the universe. But he leaves discovery, details and experiments to man. Because the Qur'an is a divine book from God only for human creation. And this approach is completely correct and acceptable and valuable. And it is undeniable.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Little 10 Toes
Master Poster
Your post has been rejected.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Everything in this post is entirely deniable, and rightly denied, because you do not have a shred of objective evidence for any of it. All you have is stubborn, completely unsupported, belief and delusion level wishful thinking.
You must realise by now that you are wasting your time here. None of us have the combination of ignorance and desperate need to believe necessary to buy a word of what you are selling. Why do you persist?
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Where is the Koran hypothesis of science from 1400 years ago? You never predicted any science from the Koran!
You keep claiming you have science in the Koran. You've been making that claim here for over a year. But you have never been able to produce even one verse with any description of modern science.
Please produce any verse with a description of modern science! You cannot. You do not have it. It's not in any Koran.
xterra
So far, so good...
Heydarian Said,
You have been struggling for many months to convince ISF members that the Qur'an is the correct and holy word of God.
With compassion and kindness toward you, I ask that you turn your attention away from ISF to avoid harm to your own peace and happiness.
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Scorpion
Illuminator
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Not according to the following verse from the Quran.
Quran surah 4.56 Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for God is Exalted in Power, Wise.
Scorpion
Illuminator
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,812
I have listed some of the horrible verse of hellfire before, and Heydarian has said somewhere that he does not believe in them. In spite of the fact he claims the Quran is the words of God. As for the soul not being affected by temperature, this is what I believe. But Muslims think we are resurrected in our physical bodies in the afterlife.