Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Yes, it really is. So please start.
The Supernatural Part II
- Thread starter heydarian saeed
- Start date
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
The oldest originals we have of the Quran lack both the vowels and, in places, the dots for the consonants. Dot below= b. Dot above= n. 2 dots above= t, for example.
Then there's the only copy of part of the Quran that was eaten by a goat. Rather careless of Allah, that one.
Hi
Being loud and even punctuating it for the Arab people during the time of Muhammad when the Quran was revealed by God. It has not been mentioned. Because the Quran is in Arabic. And Arab does not need to have vowels and punctuate Arabic words. Therefore, the Qur'an was not punctuated until two centuries after its revelation, as you say. But after two centuries, for the understanding of other people who do not speak Arabic, the Quran was voiced and punctuated by Arab scholars and under the supervision of our Shia Imam. Currently, the most authentic Quran has the sound and punctuation of the Quran written by "Hafs bin Asim". which is available to all nations of the world.
I hope I have answered for you this evening. And that is the answer.
Thank you for your question.
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That is rich, coming from somebody who has demonstrated no expertise whatsoever!
So far you have not demonstrated that the Qur’an has any knowledge more recent than the 7th century, despite your repeated claims.
Scorpion
Illuminator
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
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- 3,813
There is the matter of the Quran says the sun orbits the earth. And don't tell me that the sun orbits the galaxy because I have proved that is not what the Quran says. See my evidence below. Which you have repeatedly ignored.
It also says bees eat fruit, which they don't. They eat nectar and pollen.
The quran says the sun orbits the earth, therefore it is not from God.
when the quran says, at surah 21.33 and 36.40 and 36.38 that the sun has an orbit, Imams falsely claim this is a great revelation, because Muhammad knew the sun had an orbit in the galaxy. But the quran is actually saying the sun orbits the flat earth and is reset every dawn , and I can prove it with the following hadith.
Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38)
As can be seen it says that if the sun changed direction it would rise in the west. But if the sun changed direction in its orbit in the galaxy it would make no difference to the sun rising in the east, because it is the rotation of the earth that causes the appearance of the sun in the east. The hadith is clearly saying the sun orbits the earth, and it is a fuller explanation of verse 36.38 in the quran.
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And you have no expertise in English ... and you are giving translations here IN ENGLISH ...
... in your own words "you are rejected, what a shame you are, you do not learn your lessons well, a lazy student ... thank you, goodbye".
It is you who has little or NO expertise in science. Some of your opponents in this thread have Phd's & more in all of the science that you have talked about (none of which is in the Quran).
You have just complained that we are repeating the same things to you, but you cannot answer any of it. I just asked you when you first began to say that the Quran described evolution …
… when did you first claim that evolution was described in the Quran? Because Darwin described evolution in 1859 … did you only start making your claims 100 years after Darwin had already told the world about it?
… Einstein had already told the world about Relativity by 1905-1916 … did you make your claims about the Quran before 1905-1916? … or did you only start making your claims 100 years afterwards? …
… which Islamic believers made claims about Relativity before Einstein had told the world about it?
What do you think a “Singularity” is?
Why do you think there was any “Singularity” at the point of the Big Bang?
Which peer-reviewed papers have ever claimed that subatomic particles have any “consciousness?
Produce the published papers please.
If you are claiming things in science without having any published research papers, then you have NO CASE at all … everything I have ever told you here, is ALL fully supported in ALL the peer-reviewed published science.
And by the way, it is YOU who is not qualified to give any translations of the Quran!
There are many academics who are qualified with university Doctorates in translation of ancient documents including the Quran ... but you are not amongst them! ... your qualification is that you have dishonestly claimed a "professor title" for yourself ... a completely fraudulent bogus title that you simply invented!
The properly qualified academics in Quranic translation all agree on the correct translations ... and they completely reject your claims of translation, which are absolutely exactly the same as all the religious ijaz preachers from the fanatical nut-case branch of Islam.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
I expect that your problem is due to the fact that you are incredibly ignorant as to the topic that you are discussing.
In this case, ...
If your God is actually a God who has all sorts of great powers, and
If what your God has to say is actually so terribly important to us mere humans,
Then, your God should have been considerate enough to have said these important things in several different languages in several different eras so that everyone in the world could benefit from what your God has to say as opposed to your God limiting his discourse to just one narrow slice of the world many centuries ago.
The fact that your God has so terribly limited the dissemination of his own information clearly shows that your God is just another one of the many stupid, worthless, god myths that humans have created over many, many thousands of years.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
So, use the up-to-date translation provided by Heydarian and his Ijaz sect.
So, the Quran is always up-to-date, and doesn't need modern translations.
Hafs lived from 706-796CE. So, use an 8th century translation, not the one Heydarian and the Ijaz sect use, and not the original either.
Am I alone is noticing the self-serving contradictions here?
Heydarian Saeed, are you following the readings of Hafs when you say the Quran mentions DNA etc?
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello, dear philosopher
All the contents of modern science of the 20th century that are mentioned in the Qur'an. I only told some of them. And it is completely in the Qur'an and it has been proven. I recommend you and other dear fellow members to increase your knowledge about Arabic language and Quranic literature to understand this issue. To fully understand this issue. Until you have knowledge of the Arabic language and the language and literature of the Qur'an, this issue is not digestible for you. And your objections are based on the Qur'an. I have a question for you: If you want to comment on the content of an article or article, shouldn't your knowledge about the content of that article or article be complete? Otherwise, if you don't know about it, how can you correctly comment on the contents of that article?!
Therefore, if you do not have the knowledge (the knowledge of the Arabic language and the language and literature of the Qur'an and complete familiarity with the multiple meanings of the words of the verses of the Qur'an), your opinion is rejected. And it is in vain. I recommend that you first find a complete knowledge of the Arabic language and the Qur'an and then comment on the content of the verses of the Qur'an.
Thanks
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hi
First, I do not speak concisely. And my approach is not to follow brevity at all. Rather, it is innovation, innovation and updating of the translation of Quranic verses according to the principles of meanings and concepts of its words and phrases. Secondly, Hafs bin Asim has worked on the Arabicization, voicing, punctuation and punctuation of the Qur'an. And of course a very admirable thing. Because it has made reading the Quran easy and understandable for other languages of nations. But the first translation of the Quran was by "Ibn Abbas". And he had a skill in the 7th century for translating the Qur'an. And it still is. But unfortunately it is not up to date. And it is old.
Please be more careful in the messages and contents you say or quote.
Thanks
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Re. highlight 1: no, it's just making things up.
Highlight 2: Hafs added the punuctuation, thus creating a version of the Quran he believed was accurate. You do not believe this version was accurate, so don't cite him as an authority.
Highlight 3: Did the translation of Ibn Abbas mention DNA or pulsar stars, or is that just stuff you made up?
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
ِHello
Welcome to our discussion
You see the appearance of cases. And therefore you judge. that you say; God should have sent the Qur'an in different languages or in a language that everyone could understand. It is apparently true. But I recommend you read the history of the 7th century to understand how the world was. I'm just pointing out; Two pagan superpowers only existed in the world in the seventh century. One Persian and one Roman. Between these two superpowers, there have been Arab nations in Saudi Arabia. And they have not been mentioned in any way. God sent his prophet Muhammad in this land and revealed his unique book of Quran to him for all the people of the world. And in less than half a century, the Arab people of Arabia conquered and defeated both superpowers of the world. History says this. This is how God shows his power. This is from God's infinite wisdom and ability.
Only God shows his strength and ability through the weakest nations and tribes. There is no power and knowledge beyond the power and knowledge of God alone.
I have only mentioned a part of the history of the 7th century. You yourself read the history of the seventh century of the world and then judge.
In addition, voicing, punctuation, marking for the Qur'an is one of the side effects. The essence of God's unique word is in the Qur'an. And God's wisdom was to reveal it in the land of Arabia, which was not mentioned at all in the seventh century. And with these, he defeated the two infidel superpowers of the world. History says this.
Thanks
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2006
- Messages
- 22,109
What about all the centuries since? Today Muslims account for slightly under ¼ of the world's population, and are still outnumbered by Christians. The argument that you are clearly attempting to make - that your god's message didn't need to be delivered in multiple locations and languages because it quickly spread everywhere - is clearly false. After fourteen centuries Islam still has stiff competition and a long way to go to achieve world domination.
What Crossbow said still stands. Had people all over the world received prophets delivering exactly the same teachings as Mohammed, in cultures that weren't even aware of each other's existence at that point, that would have been impressive. But the way it really happened is consistent with Mohammed having been little different than Paul or Joseph Smith.
We all understand it perfectly well. And it is uneducated insulting arrogance from you to presume to tell us otherwise.
As far as anyone not understanding Arabic is concerned – any of us here might just as well tell you (as I have done many times) that because you do not understand English language well enough, everything that you have tried to say here in English is in fact wrong, simply because your English is so weak.
Apart from which you are actually talking here always about modern science, and by your own repeated admissions, you are relatively uneducated and ignorant in modern science … whilst many others replying to you here have degree's and doctorates and more, in precisely all of that science that you struggle to understand for even the first baby steps.
So far you have not produced even one single word of any modern science from the Quran. And the reason you do not realise that is because you are not educated in science and not educated in English language.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Saeed, there is a simple way that you can make your case that the Quran contains undiscovered scientific information, without all these tedious arguments about whether people are qualified to translate it.
Simply provide a testable prediction relating to as yet undiscovered science, derived from the Quran. I’ve asked you for this before, but so far you have failed to present anything relevant.
Simply provide a testable prediction relating to as yet undiscovered science, derived from the Quran. I’ve asked you for this before, but so far you have failed to present anything relevant.
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heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello, dear philosopher
I ignore your baseless insults. Do not be too extreme. I am a Persian speaker, but the simple translation of your words is completely understandable to me. And my English answers will answer your questions exactly. Basically, you disbelievers base your thoughts on denying the truth. And this is quite obvious. But you said for my degree and yourself and others in this forum. I acknowledged your article at the beginning. Unfortunately, you entered our discussions late. And that's why you didn't hear. Besides, I am not illiterate. And I have a technical engineering degree from the most prestigious university in Iran. The debates of modern science in the Qur'an and its understanding require relatively complete research and investigation. which i have done And it does not require a doctorate degree. I am a Quran scholar and I am proud.
You, dear philosopher, have an unnecessary prejudice even in scientific judgment and simple and easily understandable topics. I'm sorry.
I hope you raise your level of thinking.
thank you
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
What about Tang Dynasty China?
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
... 33
The 4,000-strong Islamic army comes from the border of the superpower of Pars to the city of Isfahan. "J Isfahan" military barracks has been the manifestation of the military power of the country of Pars. With 300,000 brave warriors with military experience. The price of one person's combat equipment is equal to all the combat equipment of the entire Islamic army. But this small army of Islam overcomes and defeats the incomparable army of Persia. Only with the support of "faith in the one and only God". This is what the history of the world says in the seventh century.
After a few years, the 10,000-strong army of Islam goes to the land of the Roman superpower. 700,000 Roman troops are stationed in the impregnable fortress of Babylon. No military power in the world (7th century) has had the ability to fight with the Roman army. The price of one Roman warrior's war equipment is equal to all the war equipment of the entire Islamic army. But the small army of Islam defeats the army of the superpower. The support of the Army of Islam has been "faith in the one and only God".
This is what the history of the world says.
This article is only a part of the history of Islam.
I am not a politician. But I know political science perfectly. and I analyze The power of "faith in one God" is unique and unique. The power of our country, Iran, has been increasing in a progressive manner since almost 80 years ago in terms of scientific-technological and military capabilities. We are now the first in this field in the Middle East. And all the prominent powers in the world who claim to be superpowers. They are afraid of Iran's power. This is not my claim that I am Iranian. Prominent world analysts say. The most important part of it is that we have obtained all this power with the support of faith in God alone. And more importantly, all our achievements are internal. And we have no affiliation.
Thanks
And good luck to all believers.
The 4,000-strong Islamic army comes from the border of the superpower of Pars to the city of Isfahan. "J Isfahan" military barracks has been the manifestation of the military power of the country of Pars. With 300,000 brave warriors with military experience. The price of one person's combat equipment is equal to all the combat equipment of the entire Islamic army. But this small army of Islam overcomes and defeats the incomparable army of Persia. Only with the support of "faith in the one and only God". This is what the history of the world says in the seventh century.
After a few years, the 10,000-strong army of Islam goes to the land of the Roman superpower. 700,000 Roman troops are stationed in the impregnable fortress of Babylon. No military power in the world (7th century) has had the ability to fight with the Roman army. The price of one Roman warrior's war equipment is equal to all the war equipment of the entire Islamic army. But the small army of Islam defeats the army of the superpower. The support of the Army of Islam has been "faith in the one and only God".
This is what the history of the world says.
This article is only a part of the history of Islam.
I am not a politician. But I know political science perfectly. and I analyze The power of "faith in one God" is unique and unique. The power of our country, Iran, has been increasing in a progressive manner since almost 80 years ago in terms of scientific-technological and military capabilities. We are now the first in this field in the Middle East. And all the prominent powers in the world who claim to be superpowers. They are afraid of Iran's power. This is not my claim that I am Iranian. Prominent world analysts say. The most important part of it is that we have obtained all this power with the support of faith in God alone. And more importantly, all our achievements are internal. And we have no affiliation.
Thanks
And good luck to all believers.