Cont: Trans women are not women (IX)

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Graham2001 said:
An article from 'The Economist' on the split between Europe and the United States on gender affermation, although Germany has decided that anyone over 14 can change gender simply by filling out a form and paying a fee...


https://www.economist.com/united-st...e?giftId=36b40930-ec02-4f42-b4f2-4a84fd1db7ac
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A fee !!?!? How dare they monetize individual gender expression! (Though, that does give them the opportunity to adjust prices by gender to keep an optimal balance.)
 
Vixen said:
It looks like the German football league is not bothered by this:

Reuters


Germany today, the UK and the Commonwealth close behind, tomorrow. FIFA are drawing up draft guidelines to do away with the need for distinguishing 'level of testosterone' and whether a would-be transgender football player has 'passed through puberty'. As the team manager gets to choose the players that person would just need to be good enough.
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Appeals to popularity or authority won't work here.

I (and others) think this is an obviously bad idea, and an objectively misogynistic one, for reasons that have been explained in great depth and detail in this thread. Similarly, the basis for these kinds of decisions seems to best explained as ideological capture of nincompoops by scumbags.

It's obvious you've thought none of this through, and are crossing your fingers that the German football league has. But if you had thought any of this through, you'd realize the German football league probably hasn't.

Anyway, I'll put you down as plus one for "ignorantly endorsing fiat self-ID as the standard for trans rights in public policy".
 
This is a weird one. A Japanese trans woman preserved her sperm before transitioning and then used that sperm to have a baby with her female partner. But the Japanese government refuses to recognise her as the parent of the child.

Also, I was not aware until now that Japan requires that anyone who wants to legally change their gender must have had surgery to remove the sexual organs they were born with.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/19/japan-transgender-woman-parent-child-tokyo-high-court
 
Vixen said:
Germany today, the UK and the Commonwealth close behind, tomorrow. FIFA are drawing up draft guidelines to do away with the need for distinguishing 'level of testosterone' and whether a would-be transgender football player has 'passed through puberty'. As the team manager gets to choose the players that person would just need to be good enough.
Click to expand...

FIFA probably doesn't even really care, nobody watches women's soccer anyways. So if their decision craters the league, so what? It's a side show to begin with.

And it will crater the league. I mean, beyond what it already is.
 
theprestige said:
Appeals to popularity or authority won't work here.
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I disagree. Sometimes, popularity is what matters. I think sports largely qualifies.

But Vixen is doing it wrong, and not actually appealing to popularity. Audiences are what counts for popularity in sports, not rules committees.
 
Matthew Best said:
This is a weird one. A Japanese trans woman preserved her sperm before transitioning and then used that sperm to have a baby with her female partner. But the Japanese government refuses to recognise her as the parent of the child.

Also, I was not aware until now that Japan requires that anyone who wants to legally change their gender must have had surgery to remove the sexual organs they were born with.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/19/japan-transgender-woman-parent-child-tokyo-high-court
Click to expand...

Looks like Japan is going with a de facto "transgender means transsexual" approach. I think they're probably onto something.
 
Vixen said:
It looks like the German football league is not bothered by this:

Reuters


Germany today, the UK and the Commonwealth close behind, tomorrow. FIFA are drawing up draft guidelines to do away with the need for distinguishing 'level of testosterone' and whether a would-be transgender football player has 'passed through puberty'. As the team manager gets to choose the players that person would just need to be good enough.
Click to expand...

If they want to **** up their own sport by destroying its credibility, its up to them. I see a lot of broken legs and ankles in the future of female football.
 
theprestige said:
Looks like Japan is going with a de facto "transgender means transsexual" approach. I think they're probably onto something.
Click to expand...

Matthew Best said:
This is a weird one. A Japanese trans woman preserved her sperm before transitioning and then used that sperm to have a baby with her female partner. But the Japanese government refuses to recognise her as the parent of the child.

Also, I was not aware until now that Japan requires that anyone who wants to legally change their gender must have had surgery to remove the sexual organs they were born with.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/19/japan-transgender-woman-parent-child-tokyo-high-court
Click to expand...


Well at the very least, that is likely to dissuade the creeps and perverts who would use self-ID to access women's facilities for their own self gratification. Its going to be hard difficult for them to self gratify without a cock and balls.
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Vixen said:
It looks like the German football league is not bothered by this:

Reuters


Germany today, the UK and the Commonwealth close behind, tomorrow. FIFA are drawing up draft guidelines to do away with the need for distinguishing 'level of testosterone' and whether a would-be transgender football player has 'passed through puberty'. As the team manager gets to choose the players that person would just need to be good enough.
Click to expand...
Any plans afoot to respond to my earlier response to you? ;)

Particularly about whether "you accept, or not, the standard biological definitions for the sexes?" :rolleyes:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13880709&postcount=1886

Inquiring minds, and all that ...
 
Steersman said:
Particularly about whether "you accept, or not, the standard biological definitions for the sexes?"
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How are those going to help, exactly? Suppose a woman has a hysterectomy as a result of postpartum complications. She is no longer female, in your view. What sports league should she play in? A new one for sexless people?
 
I browse this thread, but not participate as I am neither female, nor transgender. I'm mixed on several of the issues put forth.

I can see the issue that females have admitting males into womens spaces. They have some valid concerns. As well, I tend to err on the side of not allowing transwomen into womens sports, due to physical disparity.

However, an issue recently popped up a couple days ago that atddress both issues, and I feel it's disturbing:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/8...stigates-female-athlete-transgender-complaint

In a nutshell, a girl won a sport, outclassing her competitors. Parents claimed she was transgender because she 'didn't look feminine enough'. An investigation was held, and it was determined that she is female.

This proposes a disturbing question: How do you ensure that only those born female have access to traditional womens spaces, while not questioning those that don't look feminine enough?
 
Shalamar said:
I browse this thread, but not participate as I am neither female, nor transgender. I'm mixed on several of the issues put forth.

I can see the issue that females have admitting males into womens spaces. They have some valid concerns. As well, I tend to err on the side of not allowing transwomen into womens sports, due to physical disparity.

However, an issue recently popped up a couple days ago that atddress both issues, and I feel it's disturbing:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/8...stigates-female-athlete-transgender-complaint

In a nutshell, a girl won a sport, outclassing her competitors. Parents claimed she was transgender because she 'didn't look feminine enough'. An investigation was held, and it was determined that she is female.

This proposes a disturbing question: How do you ensure that only those born female have access to traditional womens spaces, while not questioning those that don't look feminine enough?
Click to expand...
That is the question I came into this thread with, what seems like an eternity ago, and also just yesterday.

I didn't want to subject serious, sincere transwomen to "papers please" when they go to use their gender-identified restroom. But I also couldn't think of any other way to square that circle.

Now, I'm pretty sure "papers please" is the only workable solution, and that papers should be reserved for people who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and prescribed access to sex-segregated spaces as a medically-recognized treatment for their condition.

And yes, that means that masculine females are sometimes going to get asked for their papers, too. It sucks, but what other options are there? For sure trans-rights activists aren't trying to come up with any. Their proposed solution boils down to: Any man should have access to sex-segregated spaces purely on the basis of them saying they want it. This solves the "papers please" riddle in the most misogynistic way possible. So it's a non-starter for me.
 
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