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Answer to the Problem of Evil

Scorpion said:
In other words you ca.
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On the contrary, I have shown you hundreds of verses. You just don't read them. As you can see, the Koran says that babies will go to paradise.

And the second thing you said is wrong too (in fact, everything you said is wrong, but I said the second for to give you a number), the Quran says that good people go to paradise and bad people go to hell. Look, I have given countless verses about this and you continue to deny it.

I have given you hundreds of verses with pages and pages of explanations, you have no point of objection anymore.

By the way, are you undergoing treatment to exorcise the demons inside you?

Peace
 
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Since this is about the answer to the problem of evil and both of you claim to have the solution:


Scorpion said:
You don't know these things, you are just making them up. As far as I know there is nothing in the Quran about what happens to babies when they die.
Will they grow up to maturity in the afterlife? if so what if they are evil and do bad things, will they remain in paradise? Even if they do will they ever be happy considering they are untried and untested and have had no experience of life?

Nor do I think is there anything about beings remaining eternally young.

If the Quran is what you believe in you have to stick to what it says and not make stuff up.
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Scorpion said:
So which verses in the unholy Quran say anything about what happens to babies after they die?
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Scorpion said:
In other words you cannot quote any verses in the Quran about what happens to babies when they die, because there are no such verses.

As for who goes to hell the Quran says , over and over again that Unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement go to hell.
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Emre_1974tr said:
On the contrary, I have shown you hundreds of verses. You just don't read them. As you can see, the Koran says that babies will go to paradise.

And the second thing you said is wrong too (in fact, everything you said is wrong, but I said the second for to give you a number), the Quran says that good people go to paradise and bad people go to hell. Look, I have given countless verses about this and you continue to deny it.

I have given you hundreds of verses with pages and pages of explanations, you have no point of objection anymore.

By the way, are you undergoing treatment to exorcise the demons inside you?

Peace
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Can either of you explain what lesson the 3 year old child - who was repeatedly raped and then beheaded - learned?

After all you both claim that what humans consider evil is necessary for us to learn things so you both must believe the 3 year old girl who was raped multiple times, by multiple men and then beheaded was being taught a lesson.

What was the lesson she was taught?

You do realise that you both subscribe to a revolting, hideous, cruel system in which 3 year old girls have to be kidnapped, raped multiple times by multiple men and beheaded so they can learn a lesson?

Your beliefs are equally abhorrent.
 
We make choices of our own volition. But how we make those choices and therefore the actual choices we make is completely determined by our heredity and environment. That we do not know ahead of time what choices we and others will make is due to incomplete knowledge. It is free will of the gaps.

One of the influences on our behavior is the expectation of future reward and punishment. It seems to me that the obviously unjust extremes of eternal torture or eternal bliss in the Christian afterlife were invented to emotionally mitigate against the skepticism toward God, judgement, and the afterlife that naturally occurs due to the lack of any compelling evidence for their existence. But those extremes end up creating new problems for belief by making God appear to be unjust.
 
psionl0 said:
Free will doesn't mean freedom of choice. Either you make your own choices (good or bad) or somebody makes them for you. In the latter case, deception is irrelevant because you aren't making a choice.
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If someone makes a decision for you, you are not exercising free will.
 
jrhowell said:
We make choices of our own volition. But how we make those choices and therefore the actual choices we make is completely determined by our heredity and environment. That we do not know ahead of time what choices we and others will make is due to incomplete knowledge. It is free will of the gaps.
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This thread is about why God (if he existed) would permit evil in this world. It is not a scientific question and therefore can't be answered scientifically.
 
psionl0 said:
What is not relevant is that the machine was rigged. What is not relevant is that you were deceived about the effect of each button on the machine.

The only relevant aspect was that you had a number of buttons to press and you chose which one to press. Since nobody chose the button for you, that is definitely an application of free will.
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So I take it you're decoupling free will from actual effects. It's free will if you think you're doing something, even if you're not?

In the voting scenario above, you freely choose to push one or the other button. Your vote always goes to A. It's true in a trivial sense that your choice of buttons was free, but your choice of candidates, the point of the buttons in the first place, certainly was not. If the ballot is secret, the ruse is invisible, and if you pushed button "A" it's even inconsequential and undetectable, but the so called freedom of will is illusory and meaningless, unless the vote is not secret, its meaning then becoming a ruse by an overseer to test your opinion for ulterior reasons. Your will is technically free, in a corrupt and convoluted way, not to do what you think you're doing, but to have your opinion used for divine judgment later.

In that world, freedom of will, though it might be said to exist, is only a trap, an invisible loyalty test. If you rattle the bars of your cage you may not get any supper, but go ahead, rattle them. At least you're free to do that. e.t.a. it's hard to see how this kind of free will is to the credit of any god who is said to be good.
 
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psionl0 said:
This thread is about why God (if he existed) would permit evil in this world. It is not a scientific question and therefore can't be answered scientifically.
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The main topic seems to be rationalizations to explain how evil can exist if God is good, with free will being part of the supposed explanation. It seems reasonable to point out that the apparent inconsistency is a consequence of incompatible tenets of that religion. And that those tenets were selected to influence the behavior of others even if they didn't fit together rationally.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
On the contrary, I have shown you hundreds of verses. You just don't read them. As you can see, the Koran says that babies will go to paradise.

And the second thing you said is wrong too (in fact, everything you said is wrong, but I said the second for to give you a number), the Quran says that good people go to paradise and bad people go to hell. Look, I have given countless verses about this and you continue to deny it.

I have given you hundreds of verses with pages and pages of explanations, you have no point of objection anymore.
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You have side stepped the issue again, I asked you for verses that say what happens to babies that die and you still have not quoted one.

As for unbelievers going to hell, unlike you I can quote verses that state this.



Chapter 4 The Women - An-Nisa: Verse 151
They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Chapter 18 The cave - Al-Kahf: Verse 102
Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.

Chapter 18 The cave- Al-Kahf: Verse
And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,-

Chapter 33 The Coalition - Al-Ahzab: Verse 64
Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire,-

Chapter 38 Sad - Sad: Verse 27
Not without purpose did We create heaven and earth and all between! that were the thought of Unbelievers! but woe to the Unbelievers because of the Fire (of Hell)!

Chapter 40 The Forgiver - Ghafir: Verse 6
Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!

Chapter 51 The winnowing winds - Adh-Dhariyat: Verse 60
Woe, then, to the Unbelievers, on account of that Day of theirs which they have been promised!


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 73
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

Chapter 13 The Thunder- Ar-Rad: Verse 32
Mocked were (many) messengers before thee: but I granted respite to the unbelievers, and finally I punished them: Then how (terrible) was my requital!


Chapter 14 Abraham - Ibrahim: Verse 2
Of Allah, to Whom do belong all things in the heavens and on earth! But alas for the Unbelievers for a terrible penalty (their Unfaith will bring them)!-


Chapter 21 The Prophets - Al-Anbiya: Verse 98
Verily ye, (unbelievers), and the (false) gods that ye worship besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! to it will ye (surely) come!


Chapter 24 The Light - An-Noor: Verse 57
Never think thou that the Unbelievers are going to frustrate (Allah's Plan) on earth: their abode is the Fire,- and it is indeed an evil refuge!

Chapter 32 The Prostration - As-Sajda: Verse 29
Say: "On the Day of Decision, no profit will it be to Unbelievers if they (then) believe! nor will they be granted a respite."

Chapter 33 The Coalition - Al-Ahzab: Verse 8
That (Allah) may question the (custodians) of Truth concerning the Truth they (were charged with): And He has prepared for the Unbelievers a grievous Penalty.

Chapter 41 Explained in detail - Fussilat: Verse 27
But We will certainly give the Unbelievers a taste of a severe Penalty, and We will requite them for the worst of their deeds.


Chapter 42 Council, Consultation - Ash-Shura: Verse 26
And He listens to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, and gives them increase of His Bounty: but for the Unbelievers their is a terrible Penalty.

Chapter 66 Banning - At-Tahrim: Verse 9
O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).

Chapter 8 Spoils of war, booty- Al-Anfal: Verse 36
The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-


Chapter 22 The Pilgrimage - Al-Hajj: Verse 72
When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, thou wilt notice a denial on the faces of the Unbelievers! they nearly attack with violence those who rehearse Our Signs to them. Say, "Shall I tell you of something (far) worse than these Signs? It is the Fire (of Hell)! Allah has promised it to the Unbelievers! and evil is that destination!"

Chapter 3 The family of Imran -Aal-e-Imran: Verse 151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!


Chapter 3 The family of Imran - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 178
Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment.

Chapter 5 The Table Spread - Al-Maeda: Verse 80
Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

Chapter 8 Spoils of war, booty - Al-Anfal: Verse 50
If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-

Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 26
But Allah did pour His calm on the Messenger and on the Believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not: He punished the Unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without Faith.


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 49
Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 90
And there were, among the desert Arabs (also), men who made excuses and came to claim exemption; and those who were false to Allah and His Messenger (merely) sat inactive. Soon will a grievous penalty seize the Unbelievers among them.

Chapter 21 The Prophets - Al-Anbiya: Verse 39
If only the Unbelievers knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the fire from their faces, nor yet from their backs, and (when) no help can reach them!


Chapter 21 The Prophets- Al-Anbiya: Verse 97
Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"
 
Darat said:
Since this is about the answer to the problem of evil and both of you claim to have the solution:




Can either of you explain what lesson the 3 year old child - who was repeatedly raped and then beheaded - learned?

After all you both claim that what humans consider evil is necessary for us to learn things so you both must believe the 3 year old girl who was raped multiple times, by multiple men and then beheaded was being taught a lesson.

What was the lesson she was taught?

You do realise that you both subscribe to a revolting, hideous, cruel system in which 3 year old girls have to be kidnapped, raped multiple times by multiple men and beheaded so they can learn a lesson?

Your beliefs are equally abhorrent.
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I don't believe I have said little girls have to be raped and beheaded to learn a lesson. You however, seem to be obsessed with such horrible things.

It is my belief we incarnate as many as thousands of times, on this and other planets. I am sure I have said before that if someone suffers an injustice in one life, then it is compensated for in future incarnations. We do not suffer the same fate every lifetime. If such horrible things happen once future lives would be adjusted to heal us from such a trauma. In contrast the actions of the men who caused the suffering would come down on them in future lives.
 
Scorpion said:
You have side stepped the ig!"
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I've given you all my work as it is. I gave you hundreds of verses. It's hard for you to digest. read it and learn:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3845.0

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611966.0

As you can see, babies go to paradise according to the Quran.

And again, as you can see, according to the Quran, the good go to paradise and the bad go to hell:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3845.msg18321#msg18321

Peace
 
Emre_1974tr said:
And again, as you can see, according to the Quran, the good go to paradise and the bad go to hell:
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Lets just take one of the verses I posted, It plainly says unbelievers are cursed and will burn in hell.

Chapter 33 The Coalition - Al-Ahzab: Verse 64
Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire,-
 
Scorpion said:
I don't believe I have said little girls have to be raped and beheaded to learn a lesson. You however, seem to be obsessed with such horrible things.

It is my belief we incarnate as many as thousands of times, on this and other planets. I am sure I have said before that if someone suffers an injustice in one life, then it is compensated for in future incarnations. We do not suffer the same fate every lifetime. If such horrible things happen once future lives would be adjusted to heal us from such a trauma. In contrast the actions of the men who caused the suffering would come down on them in future lives.
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You are now lying. You have said many times that the karma angels are tasked with ensuring the souls are taught all the lessons that are needed.

It is an inescapable fact that your beliefs mean that the 3 year old homeless girl, who was kidnapped from her mother, was then raped, multiple times, by multiple men and was then beheaded was being taught a lesson.

You cry out at someone else's as repugnant beliefs in regards to the 3 year old as yours yet want to close your eyes to your own excuse for evil.

You both claim the same "reason" for why we have evil.

So please tell me why we have the evil of the 3 year old homeless girl, who was kidnapped from her mother, was then raped, multiple times, by multiple men and was then beheaded.
 
Read and learn, Scorpion;

Emre_1974tr said:
I've given you all my work as it is. I gave you hundreds of verses. It's hard for you to digest. read it and learn:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3845.0

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611966.0

As you can see, babies go to paradise according to the Quran.

And again, as you can see, according to the Quran, the good go to paradise and the bad go to hell:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3845.msg18321#msg18321

Peace
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Emre_1974tr said:
Read and learn, Scorpion;
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So it's a good thing that that toddler was so horrifically murdered, right? It doesn't matter at all, because immediately after the savage cruelty inflicted on her she was whisked up to Paradise. So why would anyone bother to feel grief and outrage regarding her death? God let it happen because he'd make up for it in the end. But the fact that the innocent so often suffer and the guilty so often don't suffer kind of shoots the **** out of your 'bad things happen to punish the bad people' claims.
 
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