Merged Russian (genocidal) internal propaganda and goals about Ukraine

[Michel H]

And yet, in your very article you seem to ignore the pre-invasion poll from May 2013 that found a majority of the population wanted things to continue as they were, or surveys that found that a majority of Crimeans considered Ukraine to be their motherland.

Which poll from the article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum) are you referring to exactly?

The situation changed substantially after the ousting of the pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Technically, it is probably possible to destroy a nuclear plant without causing much radioactive release ...

The guy in command at the nuclear power plant demands either victory or a scorched desert. Rather than lose control of it he will create a scorched desert in Ukraine. Does that sound to you like he wants to avoid radioactive contamination, or to cause as much of it as possible?

It is truly pitiful to see you trying to convince yourself that there's some way in which this lunacy makes the Russian invaders the good guys.

 

[Michel H]

The guy in command at the nuclear power plant demands either victory or a scorched desert. Rather than lose control of it he will create a scorched desert in Ukraine. Does that sound to you like he wants to avoid radioactive contamination, or to cause as much of it as possible?

It is truly pitiful to see you trying to convince yourself that there's some way in which this lunacy makes the Russian invaders the good guys.

No, not the good guys (I am against this invasion), I said:

Nevertheless, I think the Russians should not be in Zaporizhzhia, where they came uninvited, and they should not cause more damage by destroying the plant.
...
Stout just posted:

I have edited my post (with Stout's comment), you may not have seen that.

 

[Wildy]

Which poll from the article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum) are you referring to exactly?

The ones in the "polling" section in the Background.

The situation changed substantially after the ousting of the pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014.

And we have no polling data from after he was ousted but before the Russian took control of the peninsula. The last poll presented just before the ousting showed that only a minority wanted any form of unification with Russia. Then the data starts to become unreliable.

Care to comment on the rest of my post, or do you prefer the low hanging fruit?

 

[Wildy]

I just wanted to point out that there were reports that the real referendum turnout was far lower than officially reported.

 

[Craig4]

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/08/europe/olenivka-donetsk-prison-attack/index.html

Here's a good article on the Russian attack on the prisoners in Donetsks. It does a great job of refuting the Russian lies about it being a Ukrainian attack. I'm sure our resident pro Russia pro Genocide posters won't care but for people interested in evidence and truth it's a good read.

 

[Michel H]

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/08/europe/olenivka-donetsk-prison-attack/index.html

Here's a good article on the Russian attack on the prisoners in Donetsks. It does a great job of refuting the Russian lies about it being a Ukrainian attack. I'm sure our resident pro Russia pro Genocide posters won't care but for people interested in evidence and truth it's a good read.

My impression is that this attack was done by the Russians, not the Ukrainians.

Meanwhile, it seems that the Ukrainians are still refusing a UN-IAEA mission to inspect the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant:

Ukraine's state nuclear company Energoatom opposed an IAEA visit because "any visit would legitimise Russia's presence there".

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)

It is possible that the true reason for this refusal is that Ukraine and their unconditional Western supporters don't care if a nuclear disaster occurs in Russian-controlled territory (?).

 

[Wildy]

Meanwhile, it seems that the Ukrainians are still refusing a UN-IAEA mission to inspect the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant:

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)

It is possible that the true reason for this refusal is that Ukraine and their unconditional Western supporters don't care if a nuclear disaster occurs in Russian-controlled territory (?).

Even though 2 days later they were asking for the site to be controlled by a UN peacekeeping force? The UN has asked the Russians to withdraw from the plant, Ukraine, France and the US have asked for Russia to withdraw from the plant and the US has also backed calls for a DMZ around the plant.

In what world do you think that it's Ukraine's fault that Russia is using the plant as a military base to launch artillery strikes from?

 

[Michel H]

Even though 2 days later they were asking for the site to be controlled by a UN peacekeeping force? The UN has asked the Russians to withdraw from the plant, Ukraine, France and the US have asked for Russia to withdraw from the plant and the US has also backed calls for a DMZ around the plant.

In what world do you think that it's Ukraine's fault that Russia is using the plant as a military base to launch artillery strikes from?

Yes, it is quite possible that (as you say) Russia is using the nuclear plant to launch artillery strikes from there.

But Ukraine should nevertheless allow international nuclear inspectors on the site, who would describle the exact situation.

It is possible that the Russians, after hearing that the international inspectors will be coming soon, decide to withdraw their rocket launchers from the plant (if there are any).

 

[ginjawarrior]

Yes, it is quite possible that (as you say) Russia is using the nuclear plant to launch artillery strikes from there.

But Ukraine should nevertheless allow international nuclear inspectors on the site, who would describle the exact situation.

It is possible that the Russians, after hearing that the international inspectors will be coming soon, decide to withdraw their rocket launchers from the plant (if there are any).

Ukraine aren't the ones stopping inspection of the site

russia is controlling the site

 

[timhau]

Yeah, but Ukraine is controlling most of Ukraine, so it's all their fault.

 

[Craig4]

Yes, it is quite possible that (as you say) Russia is using the nuclear plant to launch artillery strikes from there.

But Ukraine should nevertheless allow international nuclear inspectors on the site, who would describle the exact situation.

It is possible that the Russians, after hearing that the international inspectors will be coming soon, decide to withdraw their rocket launchers from the plant (if there are any).

Why doesn't Russia just leave. The only reason we're worried about this is Russia invaded Ukraine. None of this would be a problem if Russia simply returned to their 2013 border. That's all they have to do.

 

[Michel H]

Ukraine aren't the ones stopping inspection of the site

russia is controlling the site

Yes, it seems that, at the present time, it is Ukraine which is refusing an international inspection of the plant (if you have some other information, feel free to supply it):

A mission to inspect the plant was being planned by the IAEA, waiting on approval by Ukrainian and Russian sides, as well as United Nations authorisation. Ukraine's state nuclear company Energoatom opposed an IAEA visit because "any visit would legitimise Russia's presence there". Occupation official Yevhen Balytskyi invited IAEA to visit to show how the Russians were guarding the facility while Ukrainians were attacking it.[30]

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)

Earlier, Russian Foreign Ministry deputy spokesman Ivan Nechaev said that Moscow was in favor of an IAEA inspection of the Zaporozhye plant.

(https://www.rt.com/news/560680-world-brink-nuclear-catastrophe-moscow/, 11 Aug 2022 22:32)

Here is nuclear chief Rafael Grossi explaining politely the situation to CBS News: https://twitter.com/PamelaFalk/status/1554843295192334336.

 

[The Don]

Meanwhile in Zaporizhzhia, the Russians are staying true to form:

Staff at the occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant have described to the BBC being kept at gunpoint while Russian troops use it as a military base.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62509638

 

[Craig4]

Yes, it seems that, at the present time, it is Ukraine which is refusing an international inspection of the plant (if you have some other information, feel free to supply it):

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)


(https://www.rt.com/news/560680-world-brink-nuclear-catastrophe-moscow/, 11 Aug 2022 22:32)

Here is nuclear chief Rafael Grossi explaining politely the situation to CBS News: https://twitter.com/PamelaFalk/status/1554843295192334336.

If the Russians allow inspectors in, said inspectors will see exactly what the Russians want them to see. Letting inspectors in wouldn't matter because it's Russia that occupies the power plant. It will be like the Crimea fake referendums. They'll orchestrate the fiction of responsibility, or at least enough of one to spin the inspection results. Russia lacks integrity and can't be trusted.

 

[Craig4]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...s-Crimea-Ukraine-air-base-strike-war-video-vn

Not my favorite source but most of the other ones I found were behind pay walls. You get a bit more from the stupid bitch who took a vacation in occupied territory during a war. Apparently all the holiday makers who went to Crimea for their August vacation have blocked the bridge leading back to Russia. The fleeing tourists are going to be some of the best propaganda you can buy.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... Apparently all the holiday makers who went to Crimea for their August vacation have blocked the bridge leading back to Russia. The fleeing tourists are going to be some of the best propaganda you can buy.

With you-know-who controlling the TV news in Russia it's a pretty safe bet that the story will not be used as a warning to end the war. It'll be used as a rallying cry to Do Something about those dreadful Ukrainian Nazis bombarding innocent little child just playing on the beach.

 

[Wildy]

With you-know-who controlling the TV news in Russia it's a pretty safe bet that the story will not be used as a warning to end the war. It'll be used as a rallying cry to Do Something about those dreadful Ukrainian Nazis bombarding innocent little child just playing on the beach.

Yeah. They already managed to spin quite a bit of gold with Amnesty International's recent terrible report. It even got a mention to the UN Security Council.

 

[theprestige]

The propaganda situation in Russia must be wild right now, if Russians are holidaying in an active war zone. Like vacationing in England during the blitz.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The propaganda situation in Russia must be wild right now, if Russians are holidaying in an active war zone. Like vacationing in England during the blitz.

It's been a popular beach holiday destination for generations. As far as they're concerned it's even part of Russia now, and the "Special Police Action" is happening waaaaay over there in Ukraine. I very much doubt they imagined they were in a war zone.