Forward Party

[JoeMorgue]

The problem it's not about "compromise" and never has been.

This isn't about policy and never has been. It's about attitude and personality. More specifically is about walking around with a chip on your shoulder.

It's been pointed out a billion times by almost as many people that it's not policy that separates the Moderate-X from the Far-X in politics. It's how much you walk around picking fights with the other side.

Which is fine in some cases, picking fights with the Right is almost a moral imperative at this point, but own it and don't pretend its about policy level compromise.

 

[Trakar]

...There are times to hold your ground and there are times you know you are going to have to negotiate and compromise. The smart man knows the difference.

Possibly,...unfortunately we seem to live in a world where way too many of the "Smart" men seem to think that negotiation is the "evil" thing and something that you should never do until after the decision has already been made to compromise, not something that you do before you ever consider compromise.
(but I may be prejudiced in my perspective due to dealing with the DNC leadership for the last several decades).

 

[ahhell]

A third party can't thrive under a FPTP voting system.

A Democrat voter is more likely to vote Democrat than Forward for fear that if enough votes bleed away from the Democrat candidate then the Republican candidate will get the plurality and win by default.

Ditto for a Republican voter.

This. For a third party, we need some sort of ranked choice or instant runoff system and we desperately need some sort of third party.

I'm curious about the animus expressed by some of the progressives about Yang and his forward party. I just don't understand. Until we get rid of first past the post, third parties are a curiousity at best. Sure, they can spoil the election for one of the major parties but, its not at all clear which side Yang's party would throw things at this point, if at all. The answer is probably not at all. Anyone likely to vote for him, has pretty much just checked out of politics at this point.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Or we could just NOT have parties. Crazy idea I know.

 

[ahhell]

Or we could just NOT have parties. Crazy idea I know.

Literally impossible. Seriously, how would you do that? Outlaw parties? That would run afoul of at least one maybe more of the amendments. Are there any democracies without parties in some form?

 

[Trakar]

Or we could just NOT have parties. Crazy idea I know.

Not just get rid of them, outlaw them!

its a big step toward the path of "Outlawing Private money in Public elections!"

 

[Donal]

Anyone who cannot process that having compromise as a moral goal in and of itself makes one extremely exploitable is a fool.

Those that see it as unacceptable in any situation are no less fools.

Compromise is a very necessary evil in a complex world.

There is a difference between seeking compromise in order to secure a greater objective and defaulting to the middle.

There are not 2 equal sides to every issue. Some issues may have 50 valid sides. Some issues may only have 1. Sometimes the 2 sides that or being represented in a debate are both wrong.

Centrism as a philosophy is pseudo-intellectualism at its best and a tool of the worst evils in society at its worst.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That still doesn't explain while "Centrisim" (scarecord) gets more hate.

If I'm a room with a person who thinks 2+2=35,643,245 and a person who thinks 2+2=5 I'm not on either one of their side, but I'm sure who the bigger threat is.

I get why Progressives don't like mainstream Liberals. I DO NOT get why they hate them more than Republicans or even far Right extremist Republicans.

Okay fine you hate Biden because he's just another old white man part of the system. I don't get why you hate him MORE than Trump.

And I don't get why I already know with a metaphysical certainty I'm going to get "No we don't, show up where we said that nobody is saying that!"

 

[Donal]

This. For a third party, we need some sort of ranked choice or instant runoff system and we desperately need some sort of third party.

I'm curious about the animus expressed by some of the progressives about Yang and his forward party. I just don't understand. Until we get rid of first past the post, third parties are a curiousity at best. Sure, they can spoil the election for one of the major parties but, its not at all clear which side Yang's party would throw things at this point, if at all. The answer is probably not at all. Anyone likely to vote for him, has pretty much just checked out of politics at this point.

Because he is cosplaying and painting progressives with the same brush as the January 6th attackers. We've got Democratic leadership and the media already doing that.

 

[ahhell]

That still doesn't explain while "Centrisim" (scarecord) gets more hate.

If I'm a room with a person who thinks 2+2=35,643,245 and a person who thinks 2+2=5 I'm not on either one of their side, but I'm sure who the bigger threat is.

I get why Progressives don't like mainstream Liberals. I DO NOT get why they hate them more than Republicans or even far Right extremist Republicans.

Okay fine you hate Biden because he's just another old white man part of the system. I don't get why you hate him MORE than Trump.

And I don't get why I already know with a metaphysical certainty I'm going to get "No we don't, show up where we said that nobody is saying that!"

There is an element of burn the heretic there, the right does it too. Their worst hate is reserved for the Liz Cheney's and on occasion even Mitch McConnel. For some reason, the extremes always seem to hate those on their side with insufficient revolutionary zeal more than anyone else.

 

[ahhell]

Because he is cosplaying and painting progressives with the same brush as the January 6th attackers. We've got Democratic leadership and the media already doing that.

I've not seen him say anything like that but then, I think progressives are pretty bad so I probably wouldn't notice.

 

[Donal]

That still doesn't explain while "Centrisim" (scarecord) gets more hate.

If I'm a room with a person who thinks 2+2=35,643,245 and a person who thinks 2+2=5 I'm not on either one of their side, but I'm sure who the bigger threat is.

Again, in a specific scenario, centrism can work. But not as a moral guide. If you see a drowning man and you can throw him a life preserver or an anchor, are you looking to split the difference?

I get why Progressives don't like mainstream Liberals. I DO NOT get why they hate them more than Republicans or even far Right extremist Republicans.

I don't think that's true, outside of a few crackpots like Jimmy Dore. I think most of the anger you hear from progressives regarding mainstream Democrats is more frustration over someone who is supposed to be on their side not only reneging on promises, but then calling them "Extremists".

Okay fine you hate Biden because he's just another old white man part of the system. I don't get why you hate him MORE than Trump.

Hate is a really strong word. And progressives criticize Biden more than Trump because Biden is, y'know, currently president. We all know Biden still has to work around the total obstruction of the republican party, but he doesn't make things any easier on himself. And the constant cries about needing a "strong Republican party" are maddening.

And I don't get why I already know with a metaphysical certainty I'm going to get "No we don't, show up where we said that nobody is saying that!"

I mean, we could go over why Democrats were crying over Roe v Wade being overturned while simultaneously backing a pro-life candidate in primaries and funding far-right Republican candidates. Or pushing a progressive out of a safe blue seat instead of fighting in their own newly purple district. Or threatening to blacklist anyone who works with progressives in primaries. It's almost like centrist Dems wield the power they have to fight progressives harder than they do Republicans.

 

[JoeMorgue]

"I don't hate Centrist more, I just spend far far far far far far far far far more time complaining about them."

Then you hate them more. You hate the most what you spend the most mental energy opposing.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

"I don't hate Centrist more, I just spend far far far far far far far far far more time complaining about them."

Then you hate them more. You hate the most what you spend the most mental energy opposing.

That is completely backwards. You spend the most mental energy where you think it's worth your time. Change where you can effect it and write off where you can't. If you are investing time and mental energy into someone you don't think is worth that time and effort, you may want to reconsider your priorities.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That is completely backwards. You spend the most mental energy where you think it's worth your time. Change where you can effect it and write off where you can't. If you are investing time and mental energy into someone you don't think is worth that time and effort, you may want to reconsider your priorities.

We're not talking about time spent debating in Congress.

We're talking about what you spend the most time complaining about.

But again I'm not going to prove that there Progressives on this board who hate mainstream Democrats more then they hate Republicans (or the Taliban or toe fungus.) It's obvious, I'm not going down a rabbit hole.

If you have a problem with that just consider me.... ahem.... "reconsidering my priorities of where to invest my mental energy based on who is worth my time."

 

[I Am The Scum]

I get why Progressives don't like mainstream Liberals. I DO NOT get why they hate them more than Republicans or even far Right extremist Republicans.

To be fair, there is some unique foolishness among the old left, such as Pelosi saying (more than once) that we need a "strong Republican party."

 

[Beelzebuddy]

We're talking about what you spend the most time complaining about.

Complaining to those who'll listen, then, as opposed to biting at trolls.

But fine, here's your new "I'm above it all" badge. You can just ask for a replacement next time, you don't need to earn it again from scratch.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Complaining to those who'll listen, then, as opposed to biting at trolls.

But fine, here's your new "I'm above it all" badge. You can just ask for a replacement next time, you don't need to earn it again from scratch.

Spare me "I'm in the trenches and you're not" act.

This matters. The fact the Republicans can get the Bible Belt to get ready to line up and march into the sea over a man who couldn't walk past a church without bursting into flames but the Democrats can't get 'Eat the Rich' and 'Eat the Rich 99% of the Time" to sit at the same table for more than 10 seconds matters.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Spare me "I'm in the trenches and you're not" act.

This matters. The fact the Republicans can get the Bible Belt to get ready to line up and march into the sea over a man who couldn't walk past a church without bursting into flames but the Democrats can't get 'Eat the Rich' and 'Eat the Rich 99% of the Time" to sit at the same table for more than 10 seconds matters.

That would be a fair point, if the Progressives were the ones refusing to cooperate. As it is I think your ire is misplaced, and also they are mad for the same reason you are.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That would be a fair point, if the Progressives were the ones refusing to cooperate. As it is I think your ire is misplaced.

...
..
.

Because it's the "Democratic Party" and not the "Progressive Party."

Progressives always, always, always have this "The Democratic Party is so stupid and lame and backwards... and why are they so hostile to us?" attitude. Like the entire Progressive argument is that the Democratic Party doesn't know what it's doing oh and it's useless and hey why aren't welcoming me with open arms ya big meanies.

It's such a bad case of declaring something to be messed up and in the same breath getting huffy because it's not giving you a greater percentage of its messedupedness.

Stop complaining that the Coattails you demand to be riding don't match your socks.

And before you say yes I'm sure the Republican Party does this to, even worse, but it's has the basic common political sense to keep it behind closed doors and present a unified front to the Public.

I'm not stupid I don't doubt for a second that you could take any two random Republicans and odds are they are going to hate each other more than... AOC and Manchin or whatever, but they know not to make it obvious.