Merged Russian (genocidal) internal propaganda and goals about Ukraine

[Craig4]

March was after Russia invaded and occupied Crimea. The "vote" counts for nothing.

 

[Michel H]

March was after Russia invaded and occupied Crimea. The "vote" counts for nothing.

Post-referendum polls
The results of the survey by the US government Broadcasting Board of Governors, conducted April 21–29, 2014, showed that 83% of Crimeans felt that the results of the March 16 referendum on Crimea's status likely reflected the views of most people there.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum#Post-referendum_polls)

 

[Craig4]

https://www.newsweek.com/crimean-ci...fter-drone-attack-black-sea-hq-russia-1729425

And speaking of propaganda, the Ukrainians did an excellent job of it last week when they forced the Russian occupiers of their territory to cancel Navy Day celebrations in Crimea. I'm assuming the attack came from forces loyal to Ukraine in the area since Sevastopol is probably out of range for drones launched from unoccupied territory. An active insurgency, assassinating Russian occupation forces and destroying military targets is both militarily and politically a smart move.

 

[Craig4]

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum#Post-referendum_polls)

Doesn't matter. Russian forces had already invaded. We don't know what the respondents really thought because there were Russian occupiers on the ground. That negates everything.

 

[Michel H]

Doesn't matter. Russian forces had already invaded. We don't know what the respondents really thought because there were Russian occupiers on the ground. That negates everything.

If Russia occupies the municipality where I live, near Brussels (Belgium), and if a polling organization calls me on the phone to ask what I think about it, I will certainly not hesitate to say what I think.

 

[Craig4]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/putins-pals-furious-younger-russians-dont-want-to-die-in-ukraine

I'd be curious to know if injured and maimed soldiers returning home have anything to do with military aged men avoiding service. Obviously, we don't know much about how common it is to see injured or disfigured returning soldiers on the streets in Russian communities due to Kremlin censorship. It would be good to know what factors keep young Russians from joining their military. This one of Putin's lapdogs seems to have let slip the problem that conscription avoidance is a real problem for Russia.

It's probably safe to assume that younger people get more factual news from outside Russia than other demographics. Young people are likely better able to use VPNs and defeat Russian web censorship so they may have more of an idea of what is really happening in Ukraine.

It would be nice though to have an idea of how often younger people see returning wounded and how much of a factor that is in depressing conscription.

 

[Craig4]

If Russia occupies the municipality where I live, near Brussels (Belgium), and if a polling organization calls me on the phone to ask what I think about it, I will certainly not hesitate to say what I think.

Easy to say from the cheap seats. If you get your salad dressed with your own brains by Russian goons, your neighbor will freaking love their occupiers when the pollster comes around.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If Russia occupies the municipality where I live, near Brussels (Belgium), and if a polling organization calls me on the phone to ask what I think about it, I will certainly not hesitate to say what I think.

I wonder if you would tell them you assume Belgium must have done something to deserve it.

 

[Michel H]

I wonder if you would tell them you assume Belgium must have done something to deserve it.

Yes, that's right, I believe Belgium has done (and is still doing) some serious mistakes with respect to Russia. However, I do not think Belgium's errors so far are enough to justify an invasion and an occupation of the country (assuming it would be militarily feasible, which seems rather unlikely for this NATO country).

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Yes, that's right, I believe Belgium has done (and is still doing) some serious mistakes with respect to Russia. However, I do not think Belgium's errors so far are enough to justify an invasion and an occupation of the country (assuming it would be militarily feasible, which seems rather unlikely for this NATO country).

So, if a country makes enough "errors", it's okay for Russia to invade them? As punishment for the "errors"?

 

[Wildy]

Ukraine can have excellent relations with European Union countries (Germany, France, Italy, and many others) without necessarily being a member of an organization which seems to be obsessed with "sanctioning" Russia.

I don't think Russia would object to that.

Similarly, there is nothing wrong about Ukraine having good relations with the U.S., as long as these relations are not used to plot against Russia.

Is this an accurate summary of your position: "Ukraine is free to have international relations with whoever it chooses so long as Russia approves."?

 

[gnome]

I think Michael H is making the mistake of a bad lawyer. Asking provocative questions and challenges, just to try everything to see what will stick, without considering the impact to the jury if those questions have good answers.

 

[Craig4]

Yes, that's right, I believe Belgium has done (and is still doing) some serious mistakes with respect to Russia. However, I do not think Belgium's errors so far are enough to justify an invasion and an occupation of the country (assuming it would be militarily feasible, which seems rather unlikely for this NATO country).

The only mistake Belgium and the rest of NATO (the US included) was not providing more lethal aid to Ukraine after the invasion of Crimea and the Donbas. We're making up for it now. When Ukraine is done with Russia, it will be a paper tiger for decades. Losing the Cold War will be nothing compared to the way Russia is about to be crushed.

 

[jimbob]

https://www.newsweek.com/crimean-ci...fter-drone-attack-black-sea-hq-russia-1729425

And speaking of propaganda, the Ukrainians did an excellent job of it last week when they forced the Russian occupiers of their territory to cancel Navy Day celebrations in Crimea. I'm assuming the attack came from forces loyal to Ukraine in the area since Sevastopol is probably out of range for drones launched from unoccupied territory. An active insurgency, assassinating Russian occupation forces and destroying military targets is both militarily and politically a smart move.

Indeed. Either the drones came from Free Ukraine, which says the Russian air defences are pretty poor over the most valuable military in an area they've occupied for 8 years. Or there are partisan attacks even in this area.

Both say that no part of occupied Ukraine is safe for the occupiers - and they need to keep forces there to keep protect vital targets

 

[jimbob]

The only mistake Belgium and the rest of NATO (the US included) was not providing more lethal aid to Ukraine after the invasion of Crimea and the Donbas. We're making up for it now. When Ukraine is done with Russia, it will be a paper tiger for decades. Losing the Cold War will be nothing compared to the way Russia is about to be crushed.

Indeed - Azerbaijan has captured some strategic heights that had been occupied by Russian troops. Also the disproportionate losses amongst the ethnic minorities and the consequent return of bitter military veterans from those will fuel the separatist movements in many regions. Which I guess Michel H will support as they are not ethnic-Russians.

Putin might be able to complete the breakup of the Russian Empire that was started with the collapse of the USSR.

 

[Aridas]

Indeed. Either the drones came from Free Ukraine, which says the Russian air defences are pretty poor over the most valuable military in an area they've occupied for 8 years. Or there are partisan attacks even in this area.

Both say that no part of occupied Ukraine is safe for the occupiers - and they need to keep forces there to keep protect vital targets

The claim I saw is that said drone was something of a home brew one from within the city. I'd also say that that would be an indicator that support for Russia in the Crimea might happen to be a *bit* lower than Russia would have us believe.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So, if a country makes enough "errors", it's okay for Russia to invade them? As punishment for the "errors"?

That's it. And if Russia decrees the errors sufficient, we must respect the monster's judgement. So when Belgium is invaded Michel will fearlessly explain to pollsters they must have deserved it.

What's that Monty Python sketch where the victims of East End gangsters doggedly defend the men who beat them almost to death "Ah, well, I broke the unwritten law. Must have done. Stands to reason..."?

 

[junkshop]

The Guardian (a well known British newspaper) wrote, on 9 May 2022:

(https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-high-ratings-but-russians-are-terrified-too).

...the professional journalists of the Guardian make sure they use reliable and trusted sources, it's part of their job.

The Guardian's journalists didn't write that. It is from the "comment is free" opinion section, and on this occasion (as noted both before and after the piece):

Today, on Russia’s Victory Day, reimagined by Vladimir Putin as a showcase for his regime, the Guardian and other European outlets are publishing articles by the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, which has suspended publication in Russia because of censorship over the Ukraine war

(Highlighting mine).

 

[eerok]

Indeed - Azerbaijan has captured some strategic heights that had been occupied by Russian troops. Also the disproportionate losses amongst the ethnic minorities and the consequent return of bitter military veterans from those will fuel the separatist movements in many regions. Which I guess Michel H will support as they are not ethnic-Russians.

Putin might be able to complete the breakup of the Russian Empire that was started with the collapse of the USSR.

I've been waiting for Transnitra to finally shed its invaders, which will be a sure sign that Russia has lost its power to be a complete jackass in the region.

 

[eerok]

For Michel H's benefit, here's an example of how much Ukrainians are eager to become Russian:

Russian state media advocated for the introduction of labor camps, repression, and the shooting of Ukrainian partisans and civilians who refuse to cooperate with Russian-appointed officials in occupied Ukrainian territories.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-6

You can just feel the love.