kurious_kathy explain this.

[kmortis]

Murder doesn't bring long-term, irreversible repercussions as well?

And, incidentally, you need to cite your source for this text. Plagiarism is not tolerated well here.

And that's something that you should be familiar with, since it's a rule at Firestream as well. I've seen Derek take people to task over it.

Well I still like this take on marriage better...January 16

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Genesis 5:1–2

In calling Adam and Eve “Adam,” God called them one. You see, knowing our propensity to think the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, and knowing our tendency to want to trade this year’s car for next year’s model, God made it really simple for us. He ordained marriage for life. Those who understand this find glorious peace and freedom when they look at their spouse, because they know there’s no one down the line or around the corner who will give them a greater thrill. There’s not another person on earth who will make them happier, more content, or more fulfilled. Such is the amazing mystery of matrimony.

Interesting. I've always found this modern Christian idea of marriage interesting. By all evidence, mankind is polyamorous by nature. Many of our closest concestors are, and even the Jewish Patriarchs were.

I have known couples who weren’t perfectly matched body, soul, and spirit—but they stayed together because they understood the way of the Lord. And as I’ve watched them over the years, as I’ve seen their hair turn gray and their backs bow a bit, as I’ve seen them blessed with children and grandchildren, I’ve heard them say, “Wow. It’s worth it to go God’s way.”

So, being in a bad relationship is a good thing?

There is no greater joy than watching your kids grow

True

and walk in the way of the Lord.

Only if you are a Christian. We can generalize this by replacing "Lord" with "God" and make most theists happy. We atheists will still have arguments aginst this.

But all that is thrown away by the one who says, “If I have an affair, I’ll be forgiven.” But there is no thing and there is no one worth losing your family for. God talks more about the sin of adultery than about any other single sin because adultery uniquely brings long-term, irreversible repercussions.

Um...murder? I can't think of a more long-term, irreversable effect there can be than taking a life. Hurt feelings (as would occur during an adultery) can be healed, assuming the offending party is truely repentant, but a life cannot be brought back.

Oh, I forgot, God has no problems knocking up chicks, or killing people off for no good reason.

If you have been one of the fortunate few who have experienced a miraculous resurrection of your marriage following the deathblow of adultery, rejoice. You have been graced. Go your way and sin no more.

Ok, but since I don't believe in your definiton of "sin", I'll agree to go and not try to hurt anyone any more.

Dear people, determine that no matter what you’ve been through, no matter where you’ve been, you will do whatever it takes to guard the sanctity of your family.

True

 

[Rufo]

God talks more about the sin of adultery than about any other single sin because adultery uniquely brings long-term, irreversible repercussions.

First, as has been clearly pointed out, adultery is not the only sin that brings long-term, irreversible repercussions. 'God' (the Bible) talks more about adultery because it acts as a metaphor for breaking the relationship with God by, for example, workshipping another God. If you think about it, I believe you will agree that a several of the warnings about adultery in the Bible does not in context actually refer to husband-wife relationships, but human-God relationships.

You see, knowing our propensity to think the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, and knowing our tendency to want to trade this year’s car for next year’s model, God made it really simple for us. He ordained marriage for life.

Well, is marrige for life really simple? Are all divorces just our human weakness to want something better (if that really is a weakness)?

Also, isn't this story a little wierd as a comment to gay marrige? I mean, it seems to be saying that people can only be fullfilled by sharing their life with someone of the opposite sex - and clearly, there are people who prefer sharing it with someone of the same sex. These people seem quite as happy.

Um...murder? I can't think of a more long-term, irreversable effect there can be than taking a life. Hurt feelings (as would occur during an adultery) can be healed, assuming the offending party is truely repentant, but a life cannot be brought back.

That's certainly true, but also, adultery is sometimes a motive for murder. Not that this qualifies it as a worse sin (after all, not giving a robber money is also a motive for murder), but it might explain why it was forbidden in the first place.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

God talks more about the sin of adultery than about any other single sin because adultery uniquely brings long-term, irreversible repercussions.

And you obviously have no idea what ' Adultry ' was, in the context of the Old Testament..


Hint: It was perfectly all right for married Jewish men to have sexual relations with other women who were not married ( The married part didn't really matter either, as long as the woman was a Philistine or some other non-Jewish trash ).. A little rape now and then was a good thing also...

 

[kurious_kathy]

And you obviously have no idea what ' Adultry ' was, in the context of the Old Testament..


Hint: It was perfectly all right for married Jewish men to have sexual relations with other women who were not married ( The married part didn't really matter either, as long as the woman was a Philistine or some other non-Jewish trash ).. A little rape now and then was a good thing also...

Yeh I think when we speak about adultery we need to address there are two types. Spirtual adultery is addressed just as the physical adultery is.
Either one is not good. Just look at what happened to Sampson. When he fell for Delilah he lost everything. This is just one example of course. But it shows an example of both types of adultery.
And as far as rape goes...this is a terrible thing that you would say it's a good thing. It is not ....and a very sore subject for me personally. Don't go there.

 

[Ducky]

Yeh I think when we speak about adultery we need to address there are two types. Spirtual adultery is addressed just as the physical adultery is.
Either one is not good. Just look at what happened to Sampson. When he fell for Delilah he lost everything. This is just one example of course. But it shows an example of both types of adultery.
And as far as rape goes...this is a terrible thing that you would say it's a good thing. It is not ....and a very sore subject for me personally. Don't go there.

Please show me the verse stating that Sampson was married to someone other than Delilah.

The Bible records that Samson broke all of his Nazarite vows. He drank wine, he ate grapes, he touched a dead body and he did not dedicate himself totally to the Lord God. When he touched a dead body he found honey in the dead body of a lion. He scooped out the honey and ate some of it then took the rest of the honey to his parents without telling them where he had gotten it.

Samson's great weakness was beautiful women. Samson fell in love with a beautiful Philistine woman named Delilah. Night after night he visited her residence to spend hours with her. He thought that he was hopelessly in love with her because of her great beauty and charm.

source.



I see that he liked women, but not that he was married.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Yeh I think when we speak about adultery we need to address there are two types. Spirtual adultery is addressed just as the physical adultery is.

I'm sure there are many theologians and Bible scholars who would be interested in two types of adultry. Perhaps you could share some scripture that tells us about this.

Either one is not good. Just look at what happened to Sampson. When he fell for Delilah he lost everything. This is just one example of course. But it shows an example of both types of adultery.



And as far as rape goes...this is a terrible thing that you would say it's a good thing. It is not ....and a very sore subject for me personally. Don't go there.

You will have to talk to your God about that. His chosen people seemed to have thought it was O.K.. I'll see if I can dig up a verse for you..

Tell us; when the OT says " Thou shalt not commit adultry .",

what exactly, in your opinion, based on your studies of Jewish law, did this mean?

In other words, what is the definition of ' Adultry ', as depicted in the Bible?

 

[Odin]

"when the dove returned to him in the evening, there in it's beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth."
-Genesis 8:11 New international version

"And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an Olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth."
-Genesis 8:11 King James bible

So where does the olive leaf come from?

 

[UrsulaV]

And as far as rape goes...this is a terrible thing that you would say it's a good thing. It is not ....and a very sore subject for me personally. Don't go there.

I'm afraid I can't leave this one alone, as I consider this one of the vilest parts of the Bible.

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." --NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28

Do you disagree, then, with the Lord's judgement, as laid down in the Bible, that the proper response for rape is for the rapist to marry his victim?

'Cos I think any God that would require that is a right bastard. But then, I'm not a Christian...

 

[kmortis]

I'm afraid I can't leave this one alone, as I consider this one of the vilest parts of the Bible.

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." --NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28

Do you disagree, then, with the Lord's judgement, as laid down in the Bible, that the proper response for rape is for the rapist to marry his victim?

'Cos I think any God that would require that is a right bastard. But then, I'm not a Christian...

Well, technically, he's to pay her (like a whore), THEN marry her. Cause a rapist KNOWS how to treat a lady, huh?

 

[Spidey13]

Well, technically, he's to pay her (like a whore), THEN marry her. Cause a rapist KNOWS how to treat a lady, huh?

Also, notice the "and they are discovered part." It's all good if you don't get caught.

 

[TobiasTheViking]

Also, notice the "and they are discovered part." It's all good if you don't get caught.

and can we trust her testimony when it is all just paragraphs from the bible?

 

[Ducky]

Kathy, you seem to abhor rape. Good on that we agree. Its the most heinous of crimes I can think of. Except this is how rape is treated in the bible:

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

That seems like God is more intereted in property than the rape victim.

Or this:

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

God commands rape? Then God kills a child!

or this:

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion." (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

God approves of forcible rape?

or this:

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)

Self explanatory there.

How about this one:

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Instructions on selling your daughter as a sex slave:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Explain this to me Kathy. Look up the passages. This is in your bible. This is God's word.

 

[kmortis]

Going along a similar line, violence to children we have Leviticus 18:

21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

Contrast that against Genesis 22:

2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

Apparently it's A-Ok to sacrifice your kid to God. Oh, i'm sorry, God was only testing Abraham, so it makes it ok, cause God LIED to Abraham. So, it's ok. it was a little joke, that's it....gimme a break

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Explain this to me Kathy. Look up the passages. This is in your bible. This is God's word.

See there you go with your highfalutin logic and reason again. When the bible says something you agree with, you should quote it AD NAUSEAM. When it says something you disagree with you should totally ignore it. Better yet; feign ignorance and say you haven't got to that section of the bible yet. Better still; only read the passages your TV minister tells you too. Do we really need to go back to the basics of how to keep your head in the sand?

LLH

*edited typo, doh!

 

[kmortis]

See there you go with your highfalutin logic and reason again. When the bible says something you agree with, you should quote it AD NAUSEAM. When it says something you disagree with you should totally ignore it. Better yet; feign ignorance and say you haven't got to that section of the bible yet. Better still; only read the passages your TV minister tells you too. Do we really need to go back to the basics of how to keep your head in the sand?

LLH

*edited typo, doh!

GAMNIT! That's how I lost my faith. I READ the stupid book. I knew it was a bad idea at the time, but I did it anyway. That'll learn me.

 

[TobiasTheViking]

GAMNIT! That's how I lost my faith. I READ the stupid book. I knew it was a bad idea at the time, but I did it anyway. That'll learn me.

"teach me", not "learn me". Learn that? please!

 

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Well, technically, he's to pay her (like a whore), THEN marry her. Cause a rapist KNOWS how to treat a lady, huh?

No no no no no, he pays the FATHER, (euphemism for pimp?), the shekels.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Kathy, you seem to abhor rape. Good on that we agree. Its the most heinous of crimes I can think of. Except this is how rape is treated in the bible:



That seems like God is more intereted in property than the rape victim.

Or this:



God commands rape? Then God kills a child!

or this:



God approves of forcible rape?

or this:



Self explanatory there.

How about this one:



Instructions on selling your daughter as a sex slave:




Explain this to me Kathy. Look up the passages. This is in your bible. This is God's word.

First of all I will indirectly answer something I see about the OT. Many things in there seemed very harsh. But keep in perspective God was trying very hard to have Isreal be Holy and set apart. They were disobedient in many ways...and if you ask me he doesn't order it, It's more like he let's sin run it's course. He says he will turn peolpe over to their sins if they don't repent! It's a repedative consequence.
And as for David...he blew it with Bathsheba, but he did repent and ask God's forgiveness for it once he had been convicted. Was there a consequence for his sin? Absolutely.
I often question God on how he dealt with men in old days that had many wives? In the new testament we have teachings in 1 Corinthians 7 of how marriage and relationships are suppose to be. I'm thankful for these teachings myself. The disfunctional family has always been an issue. It can create way too much pain in peoples lives.

 

[Cosmo]

First of all I will indirectly answer something I see about the OT. Many things in there seemed very harsh. But keep in perspective God was trying very hard to have Isreal be Holy and set apart. They were disobedient in many ways...and if you ask me he doesn't order it, It's more like he let's sin run it's course. He says he will turn peolpe over to their sins if they don't repent! It's a repedative consequence.
And as for David...he blew it with Bathsheba, but he did repent and ask God's forgiveness for it once he had been convicted. Was there a consequence for his sin? Absolutely.
I often question God on how he dealt with men in old days that had many wives? In the new testament we have teachings in 1 Corinthians 7 of how marriage and relationships are suppose to be. I'm thankful for these teachings myself. The disfunctional family has always been an issue. It can create way too much pain in peoples lives.

 

[Ducky]

First of all I will indirectly answer something I see about the OT. Many things in there seemed very harsh. But keep in perspective God was trying very hard to have Isreal be Holy and set apart. They were disobedient in many ways...and if you ask me he doesn't order it, It's more like he let's sin run it's course. He says he will turn peolpe over to their sins if they don't repent! It's a repedative consequence.
And as for David...he blew it with Bathsheba, but he did repent and ask God's forgiveness for it once he had been convicted. Was there a consequence for his sin? Absolutely.
I often question God on how he dealt with men in old days that had many wives? In the new testament we have teachings in 1 Corinthians 7 of how marriage and relationships are suppose to be. I'm thankful for these teachings myself. The disfunctional family has always been an issue. It can create way too much pain in peoples lives.

So. Everything God did is justified then? ordering rape? Killing of children?

You're drowning here Kathy. You have yet to back up anything that can justify God telling anyone to rape and kill babies. Or that he would kill babies himself.

1 corinthians 7 reads as follows:

Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am, but each has a particular gift from God, 5 one of one kind and one of another.

How does that justify ordering rape and the killing of innocents?